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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 9:44 am
  

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The W!zard

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This topic has been transferred to the following forum: Topical Tropical Discussions

Reason: Topics should not be started with the sole purpose of being moved to Controversial Topics. Only when things get a little heated should they be moved there. Not much controversial stuff in this thread anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:31 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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I think I missed something...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:30 pm
  

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"Beer is perfect proof that god loves us." Ben Franklin


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:55 pm
  

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This quote out of the New York Times of a Judge in I-owe-wa?, must be what it takes to be a compassionate conservative:

"I don’t doubt for a moment that you are good, hard-working people who have done what you did to help your families. Unfortunately for you, you committed a violation of federal law."
MARK W. BENNETT, a federal judge, to illegal immigrants sentenced to prison terms in Iowa.

How can a Judge who knows someone is just out to take care of his family, then throw that person in jail? (It goes on all the time in this Land of the Free.)


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:56 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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This quote out of the New York Times of a Judge in I-owe-wa?, must be what it takes to be a compassionate conservative:

"I don’t doubt for a moment that you are good, hard-working people who have done what you did to help your families. Unfortunately for you, you committed a violation of federal law."
MARK W. BENNETT, a federal judge, to illegal immigrants sentenced to prison terms in Iowa.

How can a Judge who knows someone is just out to take care of his family, then throw that person in jail? (It goes on all the time in this Land of the Free.)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:20 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

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Should the law be applied or withheld from being enforced based upon regards to the reason of the violation?

Spirit of the law vs letter of the law?
Or
If your livelyhood depended upon competion with workers living in the shadows, undercutting the prevailing pay scales and violating not just federal but state and local laws would you not want justice to be applied?

The federal judge may not of liked the choice he had as well; as based on his wording, still the person in violation of the law did in fact commit a crime. Even though to you it seems victimless, you are a victim of that crime; for everytime the hospital is used for an emergency which they can not pay, the bill is pushed towards the taxpayer and insured, one way or another. If you have children who need to earn money for college can they compete against a horde of inexpensive laborers?

It may seem a minor crime but it has major implications across the nation.

I'm not unfeeling to their plight, but I am a realist in my views. Look at how computer help rooms have been moved from here in the U.S. to India and other nations as a cost saving measure. Regardless to the damage it does to the work force here in the U.S.

You don't need to disagree or agree with my opinion, just accept them for the view I hold which may be different from yours.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:14 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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I wonder often why justice is spelt "just" "ice"? Also why adg says justice is for the faint of heart?
It was Tom Paine who said on the last page of one version of Common Sense (its not in all of them.) "An avidity to punish is to be avoided."
Then I read in the Talmud of the Jews: "If the world continues to inssit on strict justice it will not endure."
If America can't help those south of the border make 10 bucks an hour more here; we need some real change. For all but, the Native Indians, all are immigrants.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:46 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

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True one should not rush to punish, yet still the punishment should fit the crime. Perhaps having them recross the desert? (Sarcasm intended)

Its not that I am unfeeling for illegasl immigrants. But at what point does disregard for laws become normal proceedure for life?

Controled sustainable immigration means a better quality of life for your children as well as their children. Also it means a reduced financial burden for us as a society inregards to the poor who live here lawfully.

Also the illegal immigrant due to his/her status is more easily exploited and relegated to a poorer role in society. Just what we need as a responsible society, people who can't be protected because they chose to violate laws.

Yes, there should be a sense of balance. but an excess on one side of the scale can be the reason for abuse on the other.
Or maybe you prefer to pay a non english speaking day laborer just $100 a day to work like a dog at some hazardous low skill job. Just to save on basic operational costs for a business.

Lawful immigration also protects the immigrant community from abuse.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:18 am
  

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This whole land is broken. As Marty Stuart's "Badlands" cd from 2005 sings,
Its a broken promised land. It has an Indian Chief on the cover.
Don't get mad at people coming here to keep from starving. Get pissed as hell at the powers that be, who are making Mexicans our enemies.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:25 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

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OK questions in response.

How many illegal immigrants are headed this way due to starvation?

How many are economic refugees not imperiled in their home nations due to political unrest?

How many can you personally support & how many will you personally support?

How many can you house and feed & how many will you house and feed?

How much are you willing to pay from your own pocket to support the illegal immigrants untill they can communicate in the common language of the nation, live in conditions equal to your own, pay taxes equal to what you are paying now, aid in the support of your community as well as take and use the resources?

Sure many are hard working and want to live peacefully, but illegal immigrant crime on illegal immigrant is costing you hard earned monies as well.

Or isn't the NAFTA working as it should, now that so many U.S. job have been exported overseas?

I don't blame any immigrant for wanting a better life, that should be a goal for all men. But at what cost; also to those who immigrated honestly and obeyed the rules?

Put your pocket book where your heart is. I doubt you want to pay too dear a cost yourself.

As for myself, I have worked with refugees; not just economic migrants but war zone refugees. There is a wide difference between the two. The economic migrants will be more burdensome to our society in the long run and reduce the standard of living even more for the working poor here in the U.S.

The poor in America have more to loose due to illegal immigration than is admitted.

Still I understand why people come to America; Even many of our poor people are fat. Being fat for centuries has been a sign of wealth. Ok lets cut benefits for the poor and let everyone enjoy socialisms progressive ways. Then the illegal immigrants can get fat and become a health burden too.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:27 am
  

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It should have always been easier for those south of us to come here.
If Lou Dobbs was as upset at the wealth the top 2% has collected overr the last 30 years. Then we would focus on fixing that.
I don't like what has happened to the Unions here.
Our whole system needs to be done over, by spreading out the wealth.
Looks like we will be united in the fall.
I just read it costs 100 million a day for upkeep of the nuclear bomb, which must never fall again. I would rather focus on that than oppressing the poor.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:03 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

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leoburg,

Spreading the wealth in what way? spell out you thoughts fully. honestly
and entirely. Collectivisation and Socialism doesn't work, Communism is a failure and it is because a man needs to keep what he has earned.

From each according to their ability to all according to their need will not work. Excessive governmental controls will further drive out the small business man and you'll end up with more shoddy affordable inferior goods being imported and at what cost.

NAFTA and cost cutting have stripped U.S. Citizens of their earning power. Destruction of Defined pensions for 401Ks is sending people to the poor house. And ever time a business gets hit with a cost increase such as taxes, either on goods produced or employee pay the cost needs to be pushed on to the consumer. The U.S. is a Consumer Society.

Whats even worse for the American people is the way State Governments provide a disincentive to save. The People's Republic of New York or would you prefer the Democratic Republic of New York views interest on a savings account as part of your earned income. As such it is included into your gross income for tax purposes. If you can't earn a meager interest on a savings account what is the savings incentive for latter in life.

Social Security is broken too because it has changed from a retirement support structure to an entittlement program. People paying into it today aren't paying for their futures, they are paying the people collecting today.
Can you say Ponze Scheme?

Yes, the systems are broke and saying they need to be changed is BS unless you can put forward an equitable way to do so. So go ahead hire your illegal immigrant to undercut a honest businessman to save a dollar and then pay more in taxes to support unemployment. It is your right and perogative just as much as a matter of having free speach.

BTW the correct spelling is TAXACHUSETTS.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:07 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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If capitalism was worth defending as an American right, Unions would never have been necessary, and health care would not need fixing. Unions are the smaller govt we the people are always going to need. They can fix health care, pensions and can even keep people working in slow times through job sharing when things get slow.-(I have seen that work.)
There has been socialism working in the Basque region of northern Spain, since the 1950's. It is called the Mondragon Cooperative. It is now the 8th largest company in all of Spain. Unions could make it work in a heartbeat here, if only any city, state or DC. form of govt would give the unions the power to workout the details of setting it up here in America.
Here is a link to it:

http://www.ourfuture.org/fast-fact/worker-ownership

I'm more concerned about wasting about $100 million a day be wasted on upkeep of our nuclear bombs than I am about 12 million people coming here to work.-it should always have been easier for them to come here.

-The same go for throwing people in jail of a drug of their choice.

You can allow the rich to get richer if you want. I waiting for the day we throw them in jail for the fruits of their ways. Thats pretty much summed up in Isaiah 23:17-18 and Isaiah 24:21-24 so we can have that big party of Isaiah 25.

Even Israel was told to be kind to those who traveled through their land. That may have only worked in Solomon's day where silver was considered worthless, and was thrown throughout its streets. Just one reason they missed their last king, and America will miss him when he comes here too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:06 am
  

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Socialism was working fine here in America, until the Natives had to start fighting terrorism around after 1492. Those Natives lived with all things in common for centuries, maybe even before the early saints said they had all things in common back when Acts was written by Paul.

Though from what I hear there are a lot of people brainwashed by the yoyo theory, "your on your own." Its too bad more don't care for the witt theory, "we're in this together." -I can't find a good George Thorogood video to back me up on that where he introduces Alvin Bishop... "Together we stand. Divided we fall. Come on now people lets get on the ball, and work together."

Even the Non-Union Electrical Contractors here in Massatack know they are better off together, for they have an ABC, which is no more or less than a Contractors Union.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:27 am
  

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And growing hemp for biodiesel would surely help Farmers and the rest of us, as this Hugh Down's recording while he was alive points out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6OQh1Hirqw


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