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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:32 am
  

What I have just noticed. I am not defending my poetry from you. I am defending it from everything in the world that is mundane. You should look at my poetry the same way (of course, from the perspective of the reader). So it results that I am accusing you of crimes you never comitted. But these crimes have been and are being comitted in the world.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 2 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:03 am
  

Sorry, PSBeaty. I have just understood, that your first reply to my poem wa nothing but a loose thought. It did not show any mockery. Id did not show the understanding of my poem, but this is not the way of loose thoughts, and don't we all have loose thoughts sometimes? Not having understood that (being very concentrated then) I rebuked, and seeing my rebuke, Cliff tossed his bullshit. And it is exactly the way all wars begin: *something very important to someone>incomprehension>asking to leave>someone doesnt like it that I am not kind and there actually the shooting begins>I bring heavy guns of the truth>offence becomes terrible>and so on. So I must just admit that, not that there is no evil will anywhere (I call it ignorance and I myself showed some of that too (in very many words). So I think we can be friends now, I promise I will defend poetry from the mundane in some other, more fitting place for that, and Cliff will promise he will not bull shit at good poems, and it's ok. And you know - the whole fuss is because, on the very start, I assumed that here, at the Place of Arlo, ANY rules are obeyed much less than, in fact, anywhere in the world. Arlo is the man, that of all men, including singers and writers (there had been only onle like Arlo that I know, a poet like me, but he comitted suicide by a train, I mean, Arlo is the one who only gives, and if a guest visits him, the only thing Arlo cares about is to give his gift to the guest, so this way Arlo is quite not keen on throwing away whatever gift the guest brings... But hey! This is not the way, hehe, even Santa must have his little helpers, and if that sounded ironic or anything... All right, it comes out that I just have to restrain my tongue a bit, which is not that bad a task, I will write less, but think more, not so bad indeed, there are worse things in the world. So what do you think? Ok. I think that now I get that there is really no problem with posting in the right part of the site, but then another questions arises - why did not I realize that before? Ah, yes. (be aware it is not a prepared speech, I am thinking and writing at the same time) I just posted a poem, I felt the poetry in me, and I considered poetry should not be deleted from anywhere, because of any reason. Why? Because poetry is some kind of life. To delete poetry is somehow to kill something. Or someone. Yes, someone. I differ from you that I see the rules in general, from the top, and you see it from the bottom. You see the rules as they are right here - posting posts the right way - and this way you don't quite het how big the animal may become (it already has, in the world. I see the rules as a big and dark mountain, so when I see even a tiny shadow, it reminds me. I see in general, I synthetize. As a poet, I must do that. And what is the result of all this, is that there was some discussion, mainly from my side, a few really good poems "I especially like the "boy in the street" I understood something and I did not have my lunch (: I like this. So, please someone say anything interesting, as I want to push the thread farther on. Heck, I do hope Arlo gets to see it, so I can finally send him my Lily Of The Valley. From this thread, he can see now much better, what kind of person I am and even perhaps who I am (:. It would be funny if he still could not (:

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 2 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:33 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 2001
Posts: 3683
Location: Dallas, Texas
Someday, perhaps through your poetry, you will come to know the difference between the rules of an institution and the voluntarily followed customs of a community; the difference between an order and a suggestion offered in goodwill. It must be a sad, tight, and lonely world for one who sees rules and orders everywhere, even where they are not.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:15 pm
  

Oh do we have to do it again. All right, we do not. I will just say to you, Ceasel (sorry if I remembered it wrong), that I see very much blindness in your eyes. My world is full of extreme sadness, but then think of the joy and then of the poetry. You say no rules here - it is terrible, because my eyes, they can see and now they do see terribly many rules inside you. When does a community become an institution? I am not going to do too much philosophy here. Not that I do not want to. So please - I say please, that is not an order or any warning or anything - please do not touch my poetry only to pity me. You do not realize that, but for a poet, there is no bigger offen... sorry. I will speak of it no more. I will tell what I intended: so, I acted stupidly. Really, I mean it. It all began from that when I was told to post my poems at Group W Community forums (or whatever it is called, i dont' remember.) Hearing that , my though was, because of the absolutely transparent name, that the mod wants me to post my poems somewhere out of this site - putting straight, to bugger off. It was stupid of me. And ignorant. And then I made very many more mistakes, talking to you, one by one missing your clues. Well, you missed lots of mine also. I was stupid, but I wrote many poems today. I am not quite mentally stable, my emotions are very strong, my joy as well as my sadness (perhaps some of you know it is a definition). And about this place.... I think that in every, and I mean every place of the world, that people visit, there will come many persons too quick to anger. And perhaps the only difference in the whole world, is only this: whether he grabs his gun then, or writes a poem.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 2 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:37 pm
  

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Joined: May 25, 2001
Posts: 3074
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountain High
Aazrane, I see from your profile that you are from a country other than the US... I believe you are in eastern europe? I sense, then, that you have probably experienced more repression than many of us. But this does not give you license to claim that we are repressive here on the Bench. I believe you are wrong in that. It appears to me that you have not taken time to read other posts, other threads, and you have not taken time to get to know the people in this community. You make accusations and post venom without knowing who you are throwing your anger at. Is this wise?

I ask you to please read the message boards, so that you know more about the people you accuse of blindness or hurtfulness. You will find that your accusations are misplaced.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:04 pm
  

Thank you. Your words are right. So I will not speak here of you. I will speak here of the rules. First, you don't seem to understand... no. First, you must know, what is a rule. I will tell what it is: a rule is a rule. Big rules, small rules, tiny rules - no matter. As a matter of speech: the rule is always the same. I am not in a bank, so I will not tell a bank story. I will metaphor it to the home of Arlo. So it goes like this: there is a place and it has its rules. When there are more than two people, there are rules. New people come, and the more of them, the more rules. Did you ever think, why are there so many rules in the world? It is only because there are so many people. So a place like this, with its little rules. Someone comes, lets say he's stupid, he's not stable, he did not see all buttons one needs to press, did not understand most of what you said to him, he does not himself what he is or if he at all is. No matter. He posts a poem. In other words: he gives a poem. You delete it. Your little rules, you know. Very little. But you deleted his poem, and it hurt him. He said: don't hurt me anymore. In the whole world, yes, let them hurt me, but not here, where lives my beloved brother. Darn the rules here, he says. And you then start explaining him your rules, so he would understand that they are so little and so easy to follow and no pain and for my own good. Meantime, you continue to completely ignore his poetry. You did not say a word, any of you, if you liked it or not, what do you think. You just try explainig rules, you convince, you understand, you pity. Someone cursed and that was a fresh breath of air to me. Please, do not comment this, just say something of my poems, and if you don't like any of them, at least tell me which one you find to be the least wretched. I as much need explaining rules as I need rules. Do say something of my poetry, because here it is getting dark and I fear that tonight I would fall again.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:04 pm
  

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Joined: Mar 08, 2003
Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester/England
aazrane, I would take on board what wyldflower, and others have said.

Poetry is, I agree with you a very personal thing and it lays its writer bare. But a poet who then gives their work out of others to read MUST understand, and I would have thought know, that each and every person each feels, thinks, hears, sees, and beleve through their own expeariances. If you stood three painters infront of a sunset each would paint it accroding to how they see it; but because they each see it differantly doesn't meen thay have taken anything away from it or that it is wrong, if you understand what I'm saying.

I'd have though that for a poet to come to a wholy new place and show so much of their work you would have been looking for and be interested to know how other saw your work, how they interprated it, so that you would then learn new ways as to how people think and feel, then as a poet use that.
Just because they don't fall at its feet doesn't mean that they have taken something from your work or you, so I don't think that you should feel the need to 'protect' it so much. I'm sure it can seek for its self, which in fact is that what poetry is meant to do!

I belong to a poetry web page, I have work on there, under another name. www.expose.net I think you should have a good look around the site first then email the owner of that site some of your work and see what he has to say, he IS a good man he DOES know what he is talking about and he WILL offer you an HONEST view of your work, you may have to wait a while though as he is very bussy.

And please have a good look round this site and get to know those who post, I really don't think you will find any foes if you would only just open your self up a littel more.

yours
with every kind regard
Beverley.
<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif" width=15 height=15>

ed because of spelling.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by beverleyknowles on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:21 pm
  

Beverly. You sang me a lullaby. I mean it. I am happy. I am not lying. I am happy. You give me a thought. One of my best thoughts I have ever conceived. Here it is:

You said:
"a poet who then gives their work out of others to read MUST understand, and I would have thought know, that each and every person each feels, thinks, hears, sees, and beleve through their own expeariances."

I say:
Yes. A poet who then gives their work out of others to read MUST understand, and I would have thought know, that each and every person each feels, thinks, hears, sees, and beleve through their own expeariances. BUT when he writes, he just must absolutely forget about it.

Another way:
A poet who gives others his work to read, MUST completely forget, that each and every person feels, thinks, hears, sees, and believes through their own expeariences.

Hmm, still too dark. In my book it will be this way, but here I will brighten it like this: You must know deep within yourself, of the construction of the world, of how everyone feels, thinks, hears, sees itd. It MUST be within him, because if he can't see it all, then what can he see at all? In other words: he needs to have this understanding as some kind of inner light within him. When he writes, this light will guide him, so he sees his place in the world, sees how it all is turning. But he must write just what he feels. Only that. Only his feelings.He MUST NOT care AT ALL, whether he will offend someone, or write something another one just does not like. Because... if he goes the other way round... If he will only care to hurt nobody's feelings.. hmm... he will not be a poet. he will be a politician. Heck. Who starts wars - poets or politicians?

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:28 pm
  

Ceashell, I will tell you what you said. You said my poetry sucks. Perhaps you haven't read it at all, but do you really think that it excuses you?

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:36 pm
  

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Joined: May 25, 2001
Posts: 3074
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountain High
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aazrane:
... I as much need explaining rules as I need rules. Do say something of my poetry, because here it is getting dark and I fear that tonight I would fall again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know you are looking for someone to comment on your poetry. That is a valid request, and I feel I need to read again what you posted before I comment. Beverley made a good suggestion that you consider posting your work to the website that deals specifically with poetry. I am a simple person, and don't feel qualified to comment. I can only say that what I recall of your work at this time was somewhat confusing to me. Therefore I shall read again.

Perhaps you do not need rules or explanations of rules... but Ceashel, from the goodness of her heart, had written to you a private message to let you know ways to help us to read your poetry without us becoming upset over your method. She was trying to let you know what our customs ('rules') are on this message board. You returned her favor by making her private comment public, and by abusing her kindness. This felt like an attack on all of us here. Shelley has long been a respected member of this community. To see her torn down by someone who is, to us, a stranger, was not to be borne.

And, by the way, I did not see anywhere in Ceashel's messages that she thought your poetry 'sucks'... You seem to be putting words into other people's mouths.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:37 pm
  

I have had a difficult day
with an easy girl.

Sex without love
is like the peak without the mountain.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:53 pm
  

Now you start to explain your feelings, not your rules. I like this. First, where did I find the "suck". She said my world is sad and tight. So I sit in my sad and tight world and I write sad and tight poems. My reaction was... well, in a while I believed what she said. That was a hit. I pity you, aazrane, that your poems are so sad and tight, and worthless, you did not know that so I told you now, because I pity you, and now you know all about yourself. -- This is just the power of putting particular words together. A poet cares fot that. Well.. did i? Perhaps I did the same to her, what she did to me? No, it dont work that way. Ah, her comment. I put it public, firstly because she said nothing that would be a shame to her, nor just anything personal. If she got naked before me, I would NEVER EVER NEVER EVER showed her to anyone. I do that to noone. I can feel. But then, I think that one's feelings should not restrain another's. The problem is not what people feel. The problem is that they don't talk about it. I publisher her message here, because I made a good comment to it, and the issue is somewhat problematic, so I wanted more people to participate. But I am wise enought to know, that if this publishing hurt her very much, I should not have done that. Because of any - you know - Reason. I just thought it would not hurt her. Then the stranger. You did not know my name, but you know my angel. I am not my name and I am not sitting in Poland. I represent certain pattern of the universe. all of you do too, and one sees it when he begins to see his pattern wide enough to grasp the principle (I did not say the rule (: .What more was there. Aha. Nobody should ever attack people. There should be attacks at things. Things that people sorruond themseves with, and then they start to mistake themselves for the things. Reallize that and you are a poet. Poet poet poet. This word has been almost as much desecrated as the word love (is the word God desecrated even more, I don't know, perhaps). I am saying I am a poet and you see... well, some jackass with a big mouth. Sometimes one must just start to cry, so the others can see he has feelings. That is, mainly, the reason they beat him. Ones even kill for that. Too bad then, if sometimes even this is not enough.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:05 pm
  

If I call this a rule, shoot me (: "Ceashel, from the goodness of her heart, had written to you a private message..." I do not doubt her heart is good. I can see it is. I can see much. My Endless is Delirium (who of you clicks?) But her eyes are not wide open. I will try to open them little wider, please nobody mind me that. Ceashell, you must know that the goodness of your heart has hurt me. From the goodness of your heart, realize that and heal the wound you caused. Apologize. Here I apologize to you. I am sorry. I was just writing. Just analysing. Just joining. You had feelings and I forgot of them. This way I wrote beautiful poems, poems that will anger many and help many. Poems that will stir the peace of the dead, that will blow away the ashes. So this is their way. My way now here is, that I am a human, as yuu are. I hurt you, I don't know how much, you hurt me I think more. Please forgive me, whatever way you forgive, and realize that goodness sometimes hurts others much more than evil. I do not need to explain, why is so. It is so.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 06, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:28 am
  

Misunderstandings
---
I suppose, that the misunderstandings
we encounter all the time, are because
the people who want to know
don't know what they want,
whilst the people who know what they want
don't want to know.

**

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 07, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:39 am
  

I will tell you of my dream. It is not a very big dream, but quite nice. It is, that Arlo finally comes here to this thread, and says: "This is my honored guest. Take your hats off." But then, I am not sure if he will come here at all, I suppose he already has his places to look for that some particular thing, and perhaps this site is not one of the places. Perhaps. Anyhow, I learned not to believe in chances of this kind. We must do without him. Myself, I too learned to do my job doing without one person or another, really no matter how dear to me. We're a nice pack of weirdos and we can handle it. Perhaps I even am the most weird one here. So, in a while I will post here the poem I wanted to show him. It is saint to me. I presumed you would want to know that. This poem originally has no spaces at all (excepting the title). There is absolutely no way I can put spaces between all words, but I came up with a way. I will put spaces at such positions, that a single line fits to the default width of this forum's message window. Though I may commit some mistake, because I don't count the letters (it is not a sonet) and I will do it approximately. I think some of you never saw a poem put in such a form, I think it is a nice reason to read it (not the contrary) So, in a while here it goes:

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by aazrane on Nov 07, 2005 ---</FONT></center>


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