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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:27 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 2001
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Location: Dallas, Texas
kj, I signed the petition, for all the good it will do--my "representatives" in Washington are all Bush Republicans: Representative Sam Johnson, Senator John Cornyn, and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. None of them are the true fiscal-conservative, Eisenhower type of Republican. They'll just laugh and go on raping and pillaging.

This bailout is a redux of what Hoover did in October 1931. Result? All the banks failed but the fat cats walked away first with more than enough to tide them over, while ordinary people were out of their houses and on the road. I guess if you need a silver lining, it gave Woody a lot of song material.

If they do pass it (they surely will), it should include stripping the billions of ill-gotten gains from the people who brought this to pass, and maybe even taking up their passports so they can't leave the country and live high while America drowns. IMHO. Actually, in my dreams.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:20 am
  

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Joined: May 25, 2001
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountain High
Shel.. I'm right there, dreaming with you! (I signed too!)

There is SOME hope ... I heard that my senators - Allard (R) and Salazar (D) are against the bailout, though there's not much hope for my rep - Doug Lamborn(R). Here's hoping that wiser heads prevail (for a change!)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:52 pm
  

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Location: massachusetts
i'm a little wary of it all, but on the news I saw there are alot of dems and republicans not wanting to hand over all this money for who or what?? with no controls...
the parties may have different agendas, but apparently the treasury submitted a 3 page (quickly readable) proposal that includes a total walk-away for any control over decisions including by the courts... major cajones here...
there's alot of conservatives, who may want different things than progressives...that don't want that kind of control in exec. branch...

there's alot of resistance and pressure to pass it by Friday... which is how the patriot act got pushed through and how the WMD panic started the Iraq war.... calling it the "Shock Doctrine" governing by crisis to grab control... Cindy Sheehan's group is calling the buy out the last step of the coup....
so i'm startled at how many on both sides of the Congressional aisle (in front of the banking committee) are truly incensed.... apparently the flood of public opinion is also falling on their ears as story up story of these super rich companies handing out huge bonuses last year while even stockholders took a big downer comes out in the mainstream press...public pressure is essential here...

it's almost too good to be true...

but i gotta support what i think and my instincts say this plan is very dangerous... and must be stopped... or modified....

there's another option....Obama has developed a 4 point plan necessary for any money to go to buy outs.... you can look and sign on at this link
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/econpr ... 0923_BO_I_

such interesting times :?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:52 am
  

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Joined: Jun 09, 2004
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Location: Brisbane OZ
My Dem Senator from Ore, Ron Wyden, used the words "wisely" and "not reckless". Sort it out as quickly as practical but if the underlying faults in the financial system are not addressed by Congress and The Administration "we may be simply building the world's largest bridge to nowhere" [quote] :lol: He's funny guy!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:12 am
  

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Ceashel wrote:
This bailout is a redux of what Hoover did in October 1931. Result? All the banks failed but the fat cats walked away first with more than enough to tide them over, while ordinary people were out of their houses and on the road. I guess if you need a silver lining, it gave Woody a lot of song material.


Although I am not an economist by any stretch (as I have said before I don't believe in superstition) but I am familiar with history a bit and I don't know if that is quite accurate. Hoover attempted a "little market interference" approach based on the "natural market correction theory" in mind but was concerned about a record national debt fueled by essentially the elimination of taxes (particularly on wealth) that had ear marked Republican policies of the 1920's growth boom (very popular policies I might add). That boom gave us all those lovely midtown skyscrapers with the Empire Building not completed until the great depression was on. He actually raised taxes by as much as 63% to eliminate this debt and imposed tariff’s as he was worried about the loss of jobs (25% unemployment in 1931). He was also a proponent of de-Mexicanization policies to create migrant jobs for Americans with a side result being a plane wreck near Los Gatos Canyon . He didn't necessarily favor "bail out's" as much as "volunteer restructuring".

There is an argument out there in the realm of superstition that these activities were more successful in stifling the growing depression than anything enacted by FDR. There was apparently a huge argument over things like the WPA versus Welfare with FDR arguing welfare was socialist and by organizing the WPA system people would work for their keep. The Hoover argument (although after leaving office he remained quiet and let others argue) being that the creation of jobs for the sake of creating jobs was socialism.

None of this mattered to the refugee's of course and Woody wrote songs about having nowhere to go and the top soil blew away in a series of huge dry wind storms. I do remember how my Grandfather always hated FDR because he lost his job grating roads in Southwest Oklahoma to the WPA when my mother was only one year old. He eventually got a WPA job building the damn that created Lake Carl Blackwell up by Stillwater, leaving the family behind and living in labor camps for a bit. In the late 30's he managed to get a job running a filling station with a diner (my Grandmother's job) next to the WIll Rogers Airport there southwest of OKC. My mom would roller skate on the runways when there were no planes coming in.

Patsy get off the runway, here comes a plane over yonder and they need to land there. Andelee...Make haste!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:22 am
  

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Joined: Sep 15, 2001
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PSBeaty wrote:
Ceashel wrote:
This bailout is a redux of what Hoover did in October 1931. Result? All the banks failed but the fat cats walked away first with more than enough to tide them over, while ordinary people were out of their houses and on the road. I guess if you need a silver lining, it gave Woody a lot of song material.


Although I am not an economist by any stretch (as I have said before I don't believe in superstition) but I am familiar with history a bit and I don't know if that is quite accurate.


You're right; it wasn't entirely accurate--I don't know what the 'fat cats' did or didn't walk away with. And I'm no economist either, and only an amateur history buff. But I wasn't referring to taxation; I meant the National Credit Corporation that Hoover started in October 1931, followed by the Reconstruction Finance Corporation the next February. Both were supposed to shore up the banks through loans but failed spectacularly, ending in the (former) worst financial crisis in American history--by FDR's inauguration, almost all states had declared "banking holidays." (Now that's a George Carlin term, isn't it?) It was a failure under Hoover, but it's also true that FDR was able to change the RFC some and use it effectively.

Still, to me it's a strong parallel.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:53 am
  

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That NCC thing was part of that effort to stimulate volunteer restructuring and I do agree there are strong parallels..especially in the area of greed and poor investments....I think the difference is the attempt to restructure is less a volunteer effort and more a here is a bundle of cash please restructure as much as you can quickly effort this time….any way you look at, GW comes off as one of the most incompetent greedy mf’ers ever to be president.

did you notice he said there is a real financial crisis last night ...duuuuhhhh?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:40 pm
  

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Joined: Oct 01, 2004
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Location: left of center, Ohio
McCain’s Economic Plan For Nation

This may change my vote come November



http://www.theonion.com/content/video/m ... for_nation


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:23 am
  

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/

got to love it! My 401K goes down the drain and all they can say is save the rich (keeping the rich afloat is good for everybody)!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:50 am
  

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....of course it was too good to be true...heard Kucinich say this morning that the bill suggests that they ought to help the mortgagees but doesn't mandate it... not even that...

...Barney Frank has been an amazing Congressman for Mass.... or so i thought... does he know what he's doing now??... (rhetorical question)....

who will spin why they voted for this in 6 months???...


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:30 pm
  

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so they say Pelosi goaded the Republicans to vote no by blaming right wing Liaise Faire attitudes for the fall!

I love it! My 401k is already shot to hell and I have little faith that throwing 700 billion dollars at this excessive economic behavior will change a thing......and on top of that, the Congress has turned into a bunch of babies because the policies they have espoused for years has bit them in the ass!!! and now they won't play at all!!!!!!

(this really should be in NAZI PUNKS ON DOPE because that was what that was all about....buying into a system of corruption for individual gains and smoking the propaganda to satify the cravings of reality!)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:21 pm
  

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...while googling the role call on today's vote, I came across a blog that had a story that a white house spokesperson had stated on the 23rd that this plan was written several months ago....'just in case'.... and there was a link.... read about half way down and you'll see...."Fratto insisted..."
http://www.rollcall.com/news/28599-1.ht ... r_friendly

hmmm...maybe that emperor really is naked....


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:34 am
  

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well what will this day bring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlgHf7zgBt4
just seems like the right song for a day like today!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:01 am
  

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm
  

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Wow. What a great thread!


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