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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:48 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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Captain Zap wrote:


Thank you Captain for bringing me back down to earth.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:14 am
  

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len wrote:

If one doesn't believe in any God, what right does it give them to question the behaviors of those that do even if contradictory? Do you ask blacks in your social circles why Obama chose the colors he did for his oval office?

When someone justifies incivil behavior with their religious beliefs and defends that behavior by claiming the civil laws support their religious beliefs, then you have a constitutional problem or challenge. Then the problem is ensuring the interpretation by the non-religious is no more onerous.


The problem Len is that fundamentally religions preach intolerance! Religion is not about morality or ethics. They wrap themselves in morality and ethics as if they possessed them and dole them out to the masses. That is just marketing. You don't need religion to be moral and ethical and loving. Fundamentally, religion teaches that if you don't follow the rules of my god (as interpreted by me) then damn you to hell. You are no longer human. That is preaching hatred! Every true "believer" deep inside somewhere feels that way. It is not about constitutions and civil laws. As Agnes says, that is just smoke and mirrors.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:38 am
  

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Goofus wrote:
Captain Zap wrote:


Thank you Captain for bringing me back down to earth.


Tweren't directed at you, Gus. But it is a great tune, ain't it?


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:07 pm
  

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heraclitis wrote:
The problem Len is that fundamentally religions preach intolerance! Religion is not about morality or ethics. They wrap themselves in morality and ethics as if they possessed them and dole them out to the masses. That is just marketing. You don't need religion to be moral and ethical and loving. Fundamentally, religion teaches that if you don't follow the rules of my god (as interpreted by me) then damn you to hell. You are no longer human. That is preaching hatred! Every true "believer" deep inside somewhere feels that way. It is not about constitutions and civil laws. As Agnes says, that is just smoke and mirrors.


And being a satisfied self-proclaimed atheist, you know this how? Do you attend church? Do you read books on religion, maybe watch the Catholic Channel or something like it? And if not, then is that only your opinion about religion? Ok by me but when you have opinions about things you don't attend or believe in, things you learned about second or third hand, are those opinions also smoke and mirrors?

Nothing from nothing means nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:20 pm
  

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Goofus wrote:
Hmm...are you telling me you think MJ succeeded? From our conversation I am assuming you are white. I could be wrong. Do you think you could become black if you wanted to?

What in the hell does government have to do with marriage? It should be separated into what it really is. Want to get hitched? Go to the courthouse. Want to get married? Go to the church.

Did you read any of the stuff Jesus actually said?


I think he tried as hard as he could. And that's all I said.

What does government have to do with marriage: it licenses it. That's all. I agree with what you say. It is sometimes described as the difference between a union under civil law and a marriage under church law. It may be just semantics because the marriage under church law presumes a license obtained for civil union anyway. Or it may be like that mosque near the site of the WTC: opinions vary based on emotional reactions to what happened at the site and to the nature of the building proposed for the group proposing it. If all sides said, fine, civil union in the courthouse and marriage in the church, the problem might not be so hard and expensive to resolve. If the persons building the mosque said, "you know, we can build this anywhere and it will still be a mosque, but if we build it there, it will be a hated mosque. Maybe we should say fine and not create a work meant to bridge communities on ground sure to create hatred."

But no it won't be that simple. Different people are talking past one another and all conversations don't lead to understanding.

Have I read everything Christ said? I have read what the Bible reports. I have friends who delight in explaining the history of the text, the translations, the omissions, the editorializing, the politics of Nicea, all of that and more. But the words that are there in the texts that I have read, well, they make a lot of sense to me. So do these words: Ekam sat. Datta. Dammyatta. Dammyadvam. The spelling may not be quite right. The translation is, "One God called by many names. Compassion. Tolerance. Self-restraint." The words of Christ and the words of the Bhagavad-Gita are not in conflict on these admonitions.

The questions are who asks for these and who answers with these given a conflict.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:59 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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quote="Captain Zap"]Hmmmm..... somebody's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mj ... re=related[/quote]

So don't live on the edge. How much do you really need?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Sn-A7D76o


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:07 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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Posts: 2010
Location: Left-of-center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgG-Ilvd8GE


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 am
  

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Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
len wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
The problem Len is that fundamentally religions preach intolerance! Religion is not about morality or ethics. They wrap themselves in morality and ethics as if they possessed them and dole them out to the masses. That is just marketing. You don't need religion to be moral and ethical and loving. Fundamentally, religion teaches that if you don't follow the rules of my god (as interpreted by me) then damn you to hell. You are no longer human. That is preaching hatred! Every true "believer" deep inside somewhere feels that way. It is not about constitutions and civil laws. As Agnes says, that is just smoke and mirrors.


And being a satisfied self-proclaimed atheist, you know this how? Do you attend church? Do you read books on religion, maybe watch the Catholic Channel or something like it? And if not, then is that only your opinion about religion? Ok by me but when you have opinions about things you don't attend or believe in, things you learned about second or third hand, are those opinions also smoke and mirrors?

Nothing from nothing means nothing.


Are you telling me that Christians don't preach that if you don't save yourself by submission to jesus then you will not make it into paradise? It is Sunday morning son, go turn on the TV and listen to what they are saying on those religious broadcasts! I have witnessed many a preacher preaching fire and brimstone! I have set through Catholic services watching the faithful fulfill their obligations.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:08 am
  

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Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"

It is that bit from exodus and its myriad of interpretations that causes all the problems.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:22 am
  

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I believe that, before he was appointed pope, former cardinal Ratzinger put out an edict (okayed by then Pope John Paul II) that, while other religions (included in "other" were the various non-RCC Christian churches) were okay, the only "true" way to salvation was the Roman Catholic Church.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:31 pm
  

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My point is if you love the Lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself, it should not even cross your mind to object to a mosque anywhere. The only question a Christian should ask is: What would Jesus do?

Edited to add this link:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/real-americans-please-stand-up/?emc=eta1

Edited one more time to say that I was going to shut up about this until I read Dick's piece.

Real Americans, please stand up.


Last edited by Goofus on Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:32 pm
  

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If you love your neighbor as yourself you will ask why others would cause them pain to prove a point. So is this mosque rendered to God or Caesar?


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:37 pm
  

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Why do you care? It's not even a mosque. Facts seem to pass over your head, Len. Do you know how many Christian centers there are in the area? Do you realize that it is not actually at Ground Zero? Being a Christian is not talking the talk. It's walking the walk.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:34 pm
  

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And emotions other than your own and those who agree with you seem to pass over your head, Gus, or what's left of your heart.

It's never been about Christianity. You had to make that leap, create that antagonism, not the Christians. You.

It's not even about Islam. Is it a mosque? The Taliban think it is. alQaeda thinks it is. The media says it is. A cultural center? No doubt about that.

All anyone has to do to see what is going on in New York is watch the YouTube videos all sides are releasing, listen to the cable pundits, etc.

Would Jesus make his point at the point of the sword? You would. That's how I know you haven't even stopped to consider the feelings of those who don't feel the same way as you do. Remember what the Imam in Great Britain said: "Come as a conqueror." Well, that's what you're doing. You're welcome to it.


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 Post subject: Re: dangerous animal too
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:16 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

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Location: Left-of-center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7h4qT6O ... re=related


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