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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm
  

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leoburg wrote:
But am starting to ''think'' that maybe all isms are corrupt?


I dunno. Corrupt? Not all. But to be an "ism" is to imply limitations instead of infinite possibilities. Even the rule which proclaims there are no rules is still a rule!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:37 am
  

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Have been thinking it would have been better stated as all isms are corruptible.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:13 am
  

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heraclitis wrote:
The great dilemma! The following three quotations from the billionaire thread all clearly suggest that America has never been a true Free Market Capitalist Economy! Why, even when it was at its closest to being a Free Market Capitalist Economy it was scandalized by the fall from grace of its greatest gods of capitalism by their mysterious creation of that socialist abomination, The Federal Reserve!


However, That has not stopped Jafo the magnificent from the following proclamation on Jan 29 in the Pork Pie Hat Column:

Jafo wrote:
There was no failure of the free market capitalism system, because it hasn't been in place for almost 100 years.. But let's cut through the bullshit shall we? When America started, we were using horses and wagons, bloodletting as medicine, and burying our food underground to keep it from spoiling. Never in the history of the world has human kind come so far in such a short period of time. A great deal of that sir, was directly from the economic powerhouse created by a capitalistic America. It broke loose from the peasant serf societies of Europe. Now those same societies are dragging it down. It is no coincidence that America's greatness has diminished in lockstep to the amount of socialism introduced to her.


Note in bold, Jafo has attributed "human kind coming so far" to something that never existed! Amazing? The amazing Jafo has done it again! It sure is a rousing awe inspiring bit of Jafoism, isn't it?

How can this be?


I realize people wonder why focus on a century old debate, but, hey that statement in bold is a big sound bite for modern "conservatives" and I question its "truth"!

Here is an interesting statement by Senator John C. Calhoun uttered on the Senate floor way back in the good old days of 1837:

"There is and always has been in an advanced stage of civilization, a conflict between labor and capital. The condition of society in the South exempts us from the disorders and dangers resulting from this conflict; and which explains why it is that the political condition of the slave-holding states has been so much more stable and quiet than that of the North. ... The experience of the next generation will fully test how vastly more favorable our conditions of society is to that of other sections for free and stable institutions, provided that we are not disturbed by the interference of others, or shall...resist promptly and successfully such interference."

John C Calhoun makes the case on the Senate floor that Slavery Capitalism is a vastly superior form of capitalism than Mercantile Capitalism (Alexander Hamilton Style). His argument is that Mercantile (soon to morph into Industrial Capitalism) is too dependent on the feelings of labor for its stability. Those damn laborers are always getting uppity and it is more difficult to break up the leadership because you can't sale them off to a hard slave-labor "position" where brutality is an integral part of the "capitalist system".

Hmmm, Interesting where America has been! That Senate has had some brazenly arrogant pricks standing around pontificating in the past! Note that word stability, Stability is always very important in Capitalism!

I like that line by Calhoun ..."FREE AND STABLE", he is talking about slavery, right???


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:35 pm
  

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heraclitis wrote:

....I realize people wonder why focus on a century old debate.......


in case there was any question, which there probably wasn't, i was not complaining.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:12 pm
  

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Heraclitis wrote:

"I like that line by Calhoun ..."FREE AND STABLE", he is talking about slavery, right???"

Right........"FREE AND STABLED" :?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:30 am
  

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“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!” -~Samual Adams (Too bad more of these kinds of men did not encounter Arron Burr.)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:53 am
  

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agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:

....I realize people wonder why focus on a century old debate.......


in case there was any question, which there probably wasn't, i was not complaining.


It seems to me that sometimes a little introspection can go a long way? By that I mean introspection not as an individual but as a people! At a time when we have "potential leaders of the free world" talking about war with just sort of an off handed gesture, followed by ludicrous statement after ludicrous statement that are later interpreted by microphone preachers as some sort of reality, while all around us people are being hit with the reality of a house of cards existence, I mean really, isn't it time to stop and think for a minute?




Here is some words by Walt Whitman that in 1860 reads:

“HISTORIAN! you who celebrate bygones!
You have explored the outward, the surface of the races—the life that has exhibited itself,
You have treated man as the creature of politics, aggregates, rulers, and priests;
But now I also, arriving, contribute something:
I, an habitué of the Alleghanies, treat man as he is in the influences of Nature, in himself, in his own inalienable rights,
Advancing, to give the spirit and the traits of new Democratic ages, myself, personally,
(Let the future behold them all in me—Me, so puzzling and contradictory—Me, a Manhattanese, the most loving and arrogant of men;)
I do not tell the usual facts, proved by records and documents,
What I tell, (talking to every born American,) requires no further proof than he or she who will hear me, will furnish, by silently meditating alone;
I press the pulse of the life that has hitherto seldom exhibited itself, but has generally sought concealment, (the great pride of man, in himself,)
I illuminate feelings, faults, yearnings, hopes—I have come at last, no more ashamed nor afraid;
Chanter of Personality, outlining a history yet to be,
I project the ideal man, the American of the future.”


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:00 am
  

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The unexamined life is the life not worth living...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:35 am
  

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DRR wrote:
The unexamined life is the life not worth living...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCOd-qWZ ... re=related

A classic moment of introspection, for what its worth!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:42 pm
  

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There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. -Leonard Cohen

Love the line of Leonard in this song, ''Its coming from the sorrow in the streets, from a visionary flood of alcohol.''

http://youtu.be/lBVaqrqb3bk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:22 pm
  

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Joined: Mar 15, 2012
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Deviating from the norm was one intolerable concept portrayed by JFK. Had JFK not been assassinated 2001 would have been more like Arthur C. Clarke envisioned instead of what George Orwell did in "1984." Now, in 2012, we have seen deviation crushed in areas where it would be positive, resulting in rampant spreading of deviation where it becomes deadly and psychopathic.

In the 60's and 70's we wanted to breed gentler people, hoping that ending the bulk of violence in Vietnam would usher in a rennaisance leading us to interstellar flights. It seems as though that dream went right on through Nixon's shredder.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:28 am
  

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Goldwater warned us about the uncompromising preachers, who took over the debate of DC back in the 80s.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:29 am
  

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Posts: 1174
heraclitis wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
The great dilemma! The following three quotations from the billionaire thread all clearly suggest that America has never been a true Free Market Capitalist Economy! Why, even when it was at its closest to being a Free Market Capitalist Economy it was scandalized by the fall from grace of its greatest gods of capitalism by their mysterious creation of that socialist abomination, The Federal Reserve!


However, That has not stopped Jafo the magnificent from the following proclamation on Jan 29 in the Pork Pie Hat Column:

Jafo wrote:
There was no failure of the free market capitalism system, because it hasn't been in place for almost 100 years.. But let's cut through the bullshit shall we? When America started, we were using horses and wagons, bloodletting as medicine, and burying our food underground to keep it from spoiling. Never in the history of the world has human kind come so far in such a short period of time. A great deal of that sir, was directly from the economic powerhouse created by a capitalistic America. It broke loose from the peasant serf societies of Europe. Now those same societies are dragging it down. It is no coincidence that America's greatness has diminished in lockstep to the amount of socialism introduced to her.


Note in bold, Jafo has attributed "human kind coming so far" to something that never existed! Amazing? The amazing Jafo has done it again! It sure is a rousing awe inspiring bit of Jafoism, isn't it?

How can this be?


I realize people wonder why focus on a century old debate, but, hey that statement in bold is a big sound bite for modern "conservatives" and I question its "truth"!

Here is an interesting statement by Senator John C. Calhoun uttered on the Senate floor way back in the good old days of 1837:

"There is and always has been in an advanced stage of civilization, a conflict between labor and capital. The condition of society in the South exempts us from the disorders and dangers resulting from this conflict; and which explains why it is that the political condition of the slave-holding states has been so much more stable and quiet than that of the North. ... The experience of the next generation will fully test how vastly more favorable our conditions of society is to that of other sections for free and stable institutions, provided that we are not disturbed by the interference of others, or shall...resist promptly and successfully such interference."

John C Calhoun makes the case on the Senate floor that Slavery Capitalism is a vastly superior form of capitalism than Mercantile Capitalism (Alexander Hamilton Style). His argument is that Mercantile (soon to morph into Industrial Capitalism) is too dependent on the feelings of labor for its stability. Those damn laborers are always getting uppity and it is more difficult to break up the leadership because you can't sale them off to a hard slave-labor "position" where brutality is an integral part of the "capitalist system".

Hmmm, Interesting where America has been! That Senate has had some brazenly arrogant pricks standing around pontificating in the past! Note that word stability, Stability is always very important in Capitalism!

I like that line by Calhoun ..."FREE AND STABLE", he is talking about slavery, right???


and returning now to the Myth or Dilemma of Capitalism as the world's savior and seeing I invoked the spirit of Mr Crumb in the Occam column I thought I would include The Artists Autobiographical musing on his life as an American Capitalist now living in the South of France:

Here we go...a 1 and a 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWG91UbwOE


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:00 pm
  

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Got a feeling Heraclitis will understand what this brief history of America, in this video is all about. It just came my way today in a facebook group.

http://youtu.be/N2Xh5eN2fXY

Jim Page has got to be right though when he says we must love the Country we are from, but at least be able to admit when it when it went wrong.

http://youtu.be/wuprDK_aNuk

Video sums up how history looks. Capitalism worked fine for a few, when there was a whole Containment to conquer, as it also worked fine after WW2 when the rest of the world was in shambles.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:46 pm
  

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Posts: 408
leoburg wrote:
Goldwater warned us about the uncompromising preachers, who took over the debate of DC back in the 80s.

And it hasn't stopped today. Now, though, it has the essence of a society once envisioned by R. Buckminster Fuller: "People voting every hour on computers..."
No. The Internet was not Al Gore's idea :D


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