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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:14 pm
  

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The Folkslinger

Joined: Nov 23, 1999
Posts: 636
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Location: Housatonic, MA
We have to have a new health-care bill as soon as possible. The insurance companies are killing us the way it is. They are the ones pulling the plug on Grannies (and everyone else) all over the country, by rationing care for profit.

That said: I want to make sure that any new bill does not limit the definition of medical services to what the insurance companies, doctors and government (The FDA, AMA, WHO etc.) have defined as legitimate health care, and is not simply more or better access to the same old stuff. I want to remain free to use herbs, vitamins, minerals and other natural treatments now being outlawed by Codex Alimentarius and other organizations with ties to the World Health Organization and the USA.

I believe there are people of good will who have bad ideas, who would limit the freedoms we have to use or have access to natural medicines and healthy food. Federal and state organizations with connections to multinational corporations are trying to protect me from myself with no credible evidence that I need protection other than from them or their profits. I do not want to have to prove to some authority that my health care regimen is not harmful. This IS still the USA where you should not have to prove you are innocent. Let the science do the math. I do not want doctors acting on behalf of Big Pharma to be my only recourse to health care.

It's simply not enough for the president to say we can keep our insurance if we want to, or join some new public option, without the guarantee of freedom to become healthy in a way we are free to choose. As it is now, I pay for health insurance (by law) that I refuse to use. For example, the insurance companies will not pay for the kind of dental work I want (removing toxic metals, root canals etc. all of which has been proven to my satisfaction to cause catastrophic illness like cancer). Not only that, but the government has just recently determined that the use of mercury in fillings is safe! Anyone (with no vested interests) who investigates this will come to another conclusion.

The effect is that I have to pay twice for the kind of dental health care I want - once to insurance companies, and also to the doctors I actually want to use. If I had cancer, I would certainly not choose to be treated in the USA where the percentage of real recovery is far better in other countries. Will the health care of my kids and grand kids be in some way dependent upon their being vaccinated against diseases where the vaccinations have, in the past, killed more people than the disease they were vaccinating against?

Real reform requires a paradigm shift in our thinking. We must realize that the bottom of the health care reform food chain is FOOD. As long as big money (Monsanto, Big Agra, Big Pharma, Big Soy, Corn, Coke, and Pepsi etc.) keeps us from healthy, real food, natural medicines, and family farms growing organic foods, we will become sicker and sicker ourselves, and more profitable to others.

To sum it up: Will the new health care reform, do more than just recycle the same bad health care to more people for less money? Now is a chance to do more than what's being debated on TV. No one, politically on the right or left or anywhere near the middle has addressed my concerns.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:09 pm
  

BlunderVirgin

Joined: Aug 13, 2009
Posts: 1
I hope I Die before I get Old!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:12 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 06, 2008
Posts: 2531
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Location: Crawfordville, Florida
Nor have they mine, Arlo. And I agree completely that a pardigm shift is the only logical remedy. Not an instant cure, but one which is heading in the right direction at least, one which will continue to bear fruit for seasons to come. I think of this paradigm shift like a river, a big ol' lazy river flowing along in a certain direction......it is the wrong direction. Government programs are created to serve as channel markers along the river to confine traffic to deep water. When a new sandbar builds up, they erect a new channel marker. Total waste of time, throwing money and work away........erect all the channel markers they want, the river is still flowing in the WRONG DIRECTION!!! And this vision of drastically transforming our way of thinking is not limited to health care......I'm not sure if it was Pete or someone else who said that the only way we can achieve any kind of lasting peace is to shift the paradigm, reprogram our brains to utilize non-violent techniques to deal with disagreements, to create and cultivate a culture of peace, a mindset of peace, as opposed to the mindset of war which is still the paradigm within which most of our world exists. We must somehow, someway change the direction the river flows and stop wasting time installing more and more useless channel markers.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:18 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 21, 2005
Posts: 1056
Location: Sunkistpower, Florida and the Janet Wood School Of L'eggsology studying sheer drama up to my waist
Nothing never changes.....IMO there is always going to be bad health care insurance, every two years co-pays a doctor's visits and prescriptions go skyrocketing high. This leaves a person with no money in their wallets! I personally do not have the 100% health care insurance Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Massachusetts. Their co-pays for meds, emergency room visits, family physicians, psychiatrists, and social workers are too freakin' high. With the treatment for my bipolar I spend a total of $200 a month in which I have mentioned above, so outrageous.The government should pay more attention to the disabled who make very little income help them pay for their care with reasonable insurance care with co-pays to doctors, meds, and most of all hospital care. In the past and present I have noticed disabled people got taken to small claims court from their doctors because they hard a hard time keeping money in the pot with a tiny monthly income, how sick is that? No shame whatsoever!
Just my two cents.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:37 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Aug 25, 1999
Posts: 1089
Location: Ocala, FL, USA
As usual, the folkslinger is right on point. The health care debate seems to have centered on a debate about health INSURANCE, not health CARE. There needs to be a dramatic retooling of the entire health care delivery model in this country, to include food companies, doctors, government agencies, insurance companies, employers, schools, hospitals, etc., and to provide various health care delivery options such as herbal medicine, acupuncture, natural healing, etc. to all who choose them. I doubt if I will ever see this in my lifetime, but there's always hope.

Anyway, I'm surprised that Obama's opponents at the town-hall meetings haven't yet come up with a new song, although maybe it's because it's well ahead of the season:

"Grandma Got Run Over by a Health Plan" (sung to the tune of "Grandma
Got Run Over by a Reindeer")!

I'm a grandpa myself now, but I won't start worrying until Obama appoints Dr. Kervorkian as Secretary of Health and Human Services.


mikey


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:53 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 1200
That's a lot to think about, Arlo.

Quote:
Mikey says: The health care debate seems to have centered on a debate about health INSURANCE, not health CARE.


And that is an excellent summary.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:36 pm
  

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The W!zard

Joined: Aug 25, 1999
Posts: 1044
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Location: Leonardtown, MD
I actually found it very funny in Obama's speech where the analogy he made was how Government Health Care will create competition in the Health Insurance market. He was trying to convince his audience that competition in the Health Care industry would be a good thing for the public. He said, after all that's what competition is all about, to reduce costs. Then he gave the most amazing analogy that completely makes the case against Government run anything. He said "just look at FedEx and UPS, they are both very competitive and they are always doing well, it's the Post Office that's always in trouble." Hello Mr President, that's what we who oppose your government take over of our health care have been trying to tell you. Thank you for making our point so brilliantly! :)

I agree something needs to be done - but from what I have seen - and I've actually looked at some of the actual reform bill, there's a lot of "ominous" stuff in there if you can actually get past all the legal mumbo jumbo. If you haven't looked at the bill... http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Good bedtime reading... well, maybe.... just don't blame me if you have nightmares.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:14 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 13, 2000
Posts: 8518
Location: Pixley-- Actually An Hr South of Richmond, VA
I agree with both Arlo & the Wiz. I don't think Obamas gonna do it right, but then again the only ones that may have the right idea are Arlo or the Wiz. I am so scared the new health plan could deny coverage for the chronically ill, the elderly and force those who can't afford health insurance plus those who can't get it due to having a pre-existing condition to have to pay a penalty they can't afford. Good luck with the new health plan.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:53 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 6520
Location: New Jersey
Like the banking problem, this one is also a hydra.
Sometimes when fighting a hydra, you may need to kill one head at a time before you go after the heart of the beast.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:57 am
  

Senior ArloNetizen

Joined: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Nashua,NH
Arlo..You are so right on and I can't agree with you more as I have been arguing the same thing for the most part. I just wish or hope the folks in Washington are hearing it. Although I am glad that reform is being debated I am afraid if not fearful that it may not get us on the right track. I want change just as much as anybody but where I would really like to see it is with the health insurance companies. I have been dealing with Hemochromotosis and quit honestly not only can it be quite painful but can really leave me feeling very sick sometimes. Anyhow, one of the treatments is the drawing of blood several times a month to lower the iron in the blood system. When I was having what I call the "blood lettings" the amount of times my doctor prescribed I was feeling very well and relatively living with no pain. But my insurance stepped in and said that I am having it done too often and thus refused several treatments. Needless to say the results have had a negative effect on me and I am in a full frontal attack with the insurance company now with the assistance of my physician. Looks like we are going to win the battle with coverage but why should I have to go through all of the hassle just to get the right treatment? Why should the insurance company be telling the doctors how to treat their patience without if consulting the physician that is involved in my case? Anyhow, right on....Let's hope that wisdom prevails and we get a bill that not only reforms but provides individual freedom as well.
-Eric


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:41 am
  

BlunderVirgin

Joined: Aug 14, 2009
Posts: 1
Just a short story: When I taught in a small school district in Northern Wisconsin, I had amazing health insurance. It covered everything without question: dentist and drugs included. I only needed to pay a $350 deductible for my family. This great coverage for all the teachers/staff created a huge financial burden on the district. And every year the costs went up. And great programs for kids were cut, so the teachers/staff could maintain this coverage. Why? Overuse. Teachers were rushing their own children to the emergency room for slight fevers or back aches. The number of pills some of the older staff were on was just crazy. People went to the doctor for the craziest things just because they could. It wasn't necessary for them to take any personal responsibility for their health because drugs and quick fixes were less work and as far as they were concerned "Free."
With all this being said, if there is nothing in this bill that encourages some personal responsibility and alternatives to conventional care, overuse will run rampant .Thus creating a huge financial burden on the government/tax payers and our American society in general. The American public must question this bill (or lack thereof) and we can't all just be cheerleaders for the current administration just because that's popular right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:06 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 6520
Location: New Jersey
In addition to the humanitarion side of things, my understanding on at least part of Obama's motivation is what health care has done and is doing to the nations economy. With health care at 17% of gdp, and rising at a faster percentage than just about anything else in the economy. He is convinced that getting a handle on it is needed to get a handle on the economic health of the country going forward.
The problems are deep, multi-faceted and systemic.
Many of the concerns that have been voiced here can be things that contribute to the fiscal side of the problem as well as the human side.
I think that once we start down the road of fixing the fiscal side of things, we can then attempt to repair and reform much of the other. It seems to me from what I've gleened this may be his master plan.
This concept may actually be easier to do with the financial industry, since the taxpayers are saving the system, than it may be with various facets of the health care industry....perhaps most noteably big pharma.
The good news is we have started to work on both of these related issues, the bad news is the obvious enormity of the problems and the power of a variety of special interests that will resist changes that will benefit the average american.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:12 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 1200
Republicans have been opposing government funded health care for a long time now.

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs


With this kind of ingrained opposition it is a rum bet that the kinds of concerns Arlo voices can be heard above the din of a party trying desperately to be relevant and using any means fair or foul to enrage their base.

As Larry said, a hydra head. Even if the money chain were taken out of the picture (it's real but for the sake of parsimony), alternative medicines or any medicine requires actuarial relationships before insurance companies will touch them. Otherwise it is like handing someone a shiny new guitar without strings. They've no clue what to do.

Then there is the FDA. I can't defend government incompetence or any large organization for that, but the relationship of the FDA tests, the vendor submitted documentation and the test results to those actuarials may be indirect but strongly coupled.

The only way I know to avoid a double pay (one for insurance you have to have to be in business and one for the resources you trust) is to have an entirely different insurance company that all parties trust and that insurance company has to have a legal means to include alternative medicines. If there is yet another money cabal that ensures the FDA can't do that (eg, members of WHO, a relationship to the UN, and a UN treaty or other international agreement that is influential over the US Congress such that the FDA is instructed not to include studies of alternative medicines), then that needs to be exposed.

With the media having concentrated in a few wealthy hands (that crack in the door), that's a tall order. It's not just that they aren't discussing Arlo's concerns, they aren't concerned with his concerns or anyone else's for that matter.

We seem to be headed toward a class confrontation in this country. The head of the class is revolting against the tyrrany of the back of the class that took over the top of the food chain. Issues like race, socialism, etc., are the glaze to keep anyone from realizing just how real and imminent that confrontation is.

The congressional town halls are just starting here in North Alabama. They are disagreeable now. As the summer goes on, they may become moreso as the ultra right and their well-funded PR organizations keep dropping more incindiary issues unrelated to health care into the discourse for the sake of enraging their constituents.

It's not about health care now. It's about creating a state of agitation that cascades from issue to issue to rob the administration of the consent of the governed. It's the same old game of "let's you and him fight" for the sake of overturning consensus.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:53 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 1200
To understand the Codex Alimentarius refererence:

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alimentarius


One source concerned with the relationships among these organizations is Ron Paul. He is quoted in the controversy section of the wikipedia article expressing the concern that the European Union reliance on the Codex guidelines may be replicated and enforced in the US although he mistakenly refers to the Codex as regulations which they are not.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:14 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Posts: 2010
Location: Left-of-center
I know some one who has dual citizenship in Canada & the US. They go to Canada for major health care.

In the USA, the health care insurance companies hold all of the cards and have most of our government, Republican, Democrat, whatever, in their collective pocket. If you stay within the parameters of your coverage, among other things, the insurance companies:

-determine the fees they pay the doctors.
-determine your copay.
-determine the treatment they will or will not cover.
-determine what illnesses/injuries/etc. they will or will not cover.
-determine who they will or will not cover.
-limit the doctors you can see on their insurance plans.
-decide what drugs they will cover.
-can deny or approve almost everything at their own discretion.

Sounds a lot like the banking/credit card businesses, doesn't it? Hardly regulated at all.

Doctors and health care professionals do not determine any of this. Suits in offices do. Doctors and HC professionals have to work within the parameters that the insurance companies establish. There won't be much of a change even if health care reform is implemented unless we go to a single payer system. That doesn't seem very likely. If you watched that Bill Moyers link to the very end (in the "Sign of The Times" thread) you'll see why. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi1acHg3mhw Our government is so intertwined with big business & corporate America that it's one big corrupt slime ball.

Massachusetts Senator Tsongas said she got a call from an 85 year old constituent who said that he worked in support of health care reform when Harry Truman was president! That's over sixty years ago! And we've got legislators and folks saying that we shouldn't rush into this?!! Sixty years, man!!!

No, I don't think we'll get what we need right off (if ever) if a health care reform bill passes. My own opinion is to at least get something started. Get the motor running and then do the tune up! Otherwise, this is just going to peter out like all the other times it has and it'll be another sixty years, and another, and another.


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