well, i noticed that difference in order...but only after looking it up!

the reverse went together well though in melody.

my point was that your post was a wonderful and humorous addition to the thread...i have no idea how it read...i sometimes don't know what language i am speaking!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8zbhQP5yIY

It is the complication
That stratifying
Complexity
Obviously arrived at More Simply
More Clarity
In the notion
Of a dissipative structure
(at least in my mind)
That leaves me in agreement with
Emergence
But if you have ever been
Lost on Stromboli
Then the truth
Is within you

(I was listening to randomness in music from my collection and (these randomness programs are getting quite clever, oh this neural net) any way….I had Lee Renaldo’s version of Coelacanth (The Death of John Fahey) followed by the Art Ensemble of Chicago’s Spiritual and then Maya by Shakti and I was caught up in the sequence with thoughts of the Coelacanth…a species that has persisted since before the emergence of man…swimming in the forgotten deep and feeding on eels and sharks…In the morning I woke and turned on the tube (they really have no tubes now) and caught The Green Pasture…Odd, just a very odd sequence of events for someone contemplating the Island of Stromboli?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXlCZoH ... re=related

ever hear Ben Webster play Stardust?

well, i watched the clip up there and wound up watching the entire movie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrrBtAah ... re=related

In my madness, I have described life, in fact I have gone so far as to describe our entire perception of reality as the manifestation of some great cosmic friction, some incredible resistance to the flow of time…our universe, our earth, our bodies rising up as heat and debris from the great cosmic flow colliding into itself at some level or other….I guess I had the crazy dreams last night…In this particular madness here, I imagine being parts of membranes that separate chambers that define channels that surge with pressure from the beat of the heart…the pressure divides into chambers that filter and modify the heat of the sun…into great streams of information sorted and changing and emerging form from the great cosmic dust…Vessels of fertility…pressure resolving to vacuums..stimulating…stimulation…resulting in fluid flows that carry the seeds of life…stimulation creating pictures in the mind, that turn into fantasy, that turn into reality...the great circle

The substance of sex reducible and definable in its elements….the emergent structure defying prediction…defying probabilities of the appearance of skin covered muscle and the softness of fat and the smells and sensation…all describable…all unpredictable…all just friction against the tide…creating fleeting thoughts in the human brain…echoing through the halls of my memory (another one of those great country music lines)…measurable as some collective creativity that fades away…

The funny thing about sex is that it is a built in belief challenge mechanism. The conscientious parent (and society) will, in attempts to protect and shelter the child, create a dogma of defined sexuality and limits. As the child matures, it becomes challenged with the realization of self as a sexual being…There are many variations on outcome including many that result in self demonization, devaluation and some really bad movies from the 50's on. Sexting is now the rage. It is an absurd reality I guess…I suppose.

All this from the fact that Shim appears to be a confused sexual being? Thanks a lot Larry, now you are responsible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfIPdRNV7cg

I know I get lost in my dreams and there is no reason for droning on endlessly...but hey...them scientists..they are making all kinda excuses to smooth over their differences..I mean with NOMA and Emergence… (except for Dawkins...he is one head on confrontin mofo)....and the theory of emergence is a, well you know, an act of conciliation that I find almost as distasteful as Shim, not as silly as NOMA… but hey…you connect the dots

and now for my number one favorite folk song in the whole world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlokeez6KIk

another on of the folk songs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avWd9BAc ... re=related

I just love Suzy and if you aint never seen her, it is one great show!

i wouldn't call what you do droning on at all...not at all...i like listening to what you have to say!

I agree with the concept of emergence, I mean...look around...this planet is dominated by order and that order is life...but concilatory...I believe...I been thinkin about the theory of belief...If I believe then I automatically become defensive in my beliefs to the point of stupidity...I will defend my beliefs until I prove that I am one frickin idiot for believin what I believe...sorry! got side tracked again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUUsO7SI ... re=related

couldn't help it, I love kitty..I got some great Jack and Johny with Kitty (oh the poison love)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ZDe1xPvCQ
what the hell?

another great folk song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuAfCMKBS8Q
what harmonies

I dunno...kinda sounds like the scientific process to me...

what do you mean?

I was thinking about that believe thing and that song Pastures of Plenty (one of my favorite folk songs). However, from a belief point of view, the song appears to be quite ambiguous (the cornerstone of that whole belief in belief argument, ambiguity). It starts, It’s a mighty hard road my poor hands has hoed. I mean that does not sound like any fun. Then the song proceeds to describe a migratory life. Alright, could be good, always in the fresh air traveling around. Then you get these little weird descriptions about hot deserts and cold mountains and some how it doesn’t sound so romantic. All through the song, you get the feeling of this poor hard working rambling man (ain’t never been on welfare and that’s one place I won’t be) juxtaposed against this great power and wealth of which he is just a servant. The great harvest, the cornucopia, complete with sparkling wine and all part of some big machine powered by the Grand Coulee Damn but still you get the feeling this singer is on the outside looking in. In the end you get this vision of working ‘til you die. Doesn’t sound fun, why that sounds like no fun at all! Then, in the last phrase, the final emotion coming out of this working man who you just feel is a pawn of the system, the guy that never makes enough to catch up to his debts even though he busts his ass in the fields, the guy who has some credit vulture collection asshole banker always siphoning off his money as interest, not principle, the poor some bitch who is the victim and not the cause of the great recession / depression can never catch up to the company store…says, in the end, he will defend the whole system with his life if need be, cause his pastures of plenty must always be free.

I mean it is all there and relevant today…as relevant as ever. This mantra of belief and faith in democracy blinding us of those who abandon true ethical principles in the name of profit and capitalism so they can control a position on the inside looking out. Those who would wrap themselves in the mantle of freedom and democracy and religious values are siphoning the life out of those who are just busting their asses and living under the guise of the “great dream of democracy”. That dream is so strong and their faith in its eventual realization so real that they are willing to sacrifice their life for it.

I was also thinking about emergence again and I thought I should try to clarify why sex was the example. Elementally the sex organs meet all the requirements for grand classical reductionism (to the Deist delight). Mechanically, the sex organs meet all the requirements to demonstrate the emergence of low probability complex biological systems that defy reduction (to the theist delight, I could have chose the heart alone I suppose). I chose sex because it forces us to consider the most unpredictable of life’s many phenomena, the mind. Not the brain. Not the physical entity, but the presence of perception and introspection and realization and all those things that make us human. (finger in the air and in that great cosmic truth voice) The Soul! It is the mind that confuses love and sex, not the body. Finally, why Ingrid Bergman and the Island of Stromboli? Well, the answer is simple, Isabella!

And so, after this last great burst of my own insanity and mind effusions (now that line will never make it in a country song!)…I leave you with the great summary slide and one of my personal favorite quotations from great contemplations…

It don’t mean shit to a tree!

never mind the thing about whether or not God exists
i am probably the biggest fool of all, i believe in the crazy idea that love exists!
i don't mean no hee bee jee bee hocus pocus either!
which helps to make it hard to believe in

i am sure it makes me a laughing stock and all...but why worry about that now

oh sure, there are probably those who would want to analyze or resolve it, or fit it in a formula of a particular persuasion, or try to capture it and put it in a jar and behind glass on display, and charge you to see it, or say that it is not important...why does it seem important?

I suppose since one can experience love but really only imagine God, agnes might be on to something!

i never said love does not exist?

psb, i know you like to look at things thoroughly and all, but it wasn't directed at you. it was meant in general as it is an observation in general.

sometimes though i feel like i am crazy for believing in it (?) and i wonder why it seems important.
i know i am still not saying it all quite right but that seems to be all for now.

thanks for your patience...you too larry.