Forums » Group W Forums » The Story Board

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:11 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:

i must confess, i have not read the bhagavad gita, and have not been familiar with the story of arjuna and krishna (though i have been familiar with both their names)

but i have since learned (since your post, and if this is right) that the person who killed gandhi held the bhagavad gita as very important and seems it influenced his reasons for killing gandhi.


Well, if you do decide to read it, I suggest Gandhi's translation with comments.


so you are telling me it contains a bit of violence, probably divinely sanctioned violence.


it is a dialectic between an individual (Arjuna) and the well spring of knowledge (Krishna) on the role, duty and actions of the individual in a world full of struggle and violence. There is a good and evil dichotomy. Unlike the Zoroastrian- Judeo-Christian-Islamic Philosophy of a great cosmic war between good and evil, good and evil persist together in nature as one. Evil can't persist without good and good can't persist without evil. An example of this being "you can't have a light without a dark to stick it in".

It is not so much a divinely sanctioned violence as much as a discussion of the duty of an individual in a world where violence persists as part of nature.


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:22 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
i would really need to read the actual text to fully appreciate your post. (i will try to get around to that as i am curious).

so far i have been trying to piece together what i have read here, and also where i read about the person who killed gandhi seeing it as his "duty" to do so.

i would like to read the actual text to see how it might suggest to a person that it is their duty to kill gandhi. or in the case of himmler, how it would have played in that role.

considering the 2 accounts above, if, how i was thinking, as i suggested, IF, there is a bit of divinely sanctioned violence in the actual text, how might gandhi reconcile it? when you say "gandhi's translation with comments" i wonder if his translation is uniquely his own? somewhere along the way i am pretty sure i read mention that gandhi seemed to like jesus' sermon on the mount. which suggests to me that he wasn't on about the bhagavad gita ONLY…that he was okay with looking outside of hinduism to other inspirational figures, or moments?


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:07 pm
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:
i would really need to read the actual text to fully appreciate your post. (i will try to get around to that as i am curious).

so far i have been trying to piece together what i have read here, and also where i read about the person who killed gandhi seeing it as his "duty" to do so.

i would like to read the actual text to see how it might suggest to a person that it is their duty to kill gandhi. or in the case of himmler, how it would have played in that role.

considering the 2 accounts above, if, how i was thinking, as i suggested, IF, there is a bit of divinely sanctioned violence in the actual text, how might gandhi reconcile it? when you say "gandhi's translation with comments" i wonder if his translation is uniquely his own? somewhere along the way i am pretty sure i read mention that gandhi seemed to like jesus' sermon on the mount. which suggests to me that he wasn't on about the bhagavad gita ONLY…that he was okay with looking outside of hinduism to other inspirational figures, or moments?


There is a Civil War
Arjuna is the baddest Mofo on the field
Krishna drives his chariot
Arjuna has friends and relations on both sides
He dreads the thought of killing friends and relations
The friends and relations on both sides spells out that there are good and evil men on both sides(the nature thing)
Krishna confronts him about not doing his duty (which is killing friends and relations)
a dialectic on doing good or bad in the name of a greater good ensues

Gandhi believed that war and killing represents the extreme measure to emphasize the importance of Krishna's message

The Gita in a nutshell

Himmler believed Arjuna was his Aryan ancestor and made the teaching of the Gita SS textbook 101

This was not a widely held belief in either the Nazi party or Germany but then he only needed the SS for a really bad idea to be fulfilled.


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:04 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:
i would really need to read the actual text to fully appreciate your post. (i will try to get around to that as i am curious).

so far i have been trying to piece together what i have read here, and also where i read about the person who killed gandhi seeing it as his "duty" to do so.

i would like to read the actual text to see how it might suggest to a person that it is their duty to kill gandhi. or in the case of himmler, how it would have played in that role.

considering the 2 accounts above, if, how i was thinking, as i suggested, IF, there is a bit of divinely sanctioned violence in the actual text, how might gandhi reconcile it? when you say "gandhi's translation with comments" i wonder if his translation is uniquely his own? somewhere along the way i am pretty sure i read mention that gandhi seemed to like jesus' sermon on the mount. which suggests to me that he wasn't on about the bhagavad gita ONLY…that he was okay with looking outside of hinduism to other inspirational figures, or moments?


There is a Civil War
Arjuna is the baddest Mofo on the field
Krishna drives his chariot
Arjuna has friends and relations on both sides
He dreads the thought of killing friends and relations
The friends and relations on both sides spells out that there are good and evil men on both sides(the nature thing)
Krishna confronts him about not doing his duty (which is killing friends and relations)
a dialectic on doing good or bad in the name of a greater good ensues

Gandhi believed that war and killing represents the extreme measure to emphasize the importance of Krishna's message

The Gita in a nutshell

Himmler believed Arjuna was his Aryan ancestor and made the teaching of the Gita SS textbook 101

This was not a widely held belief in either the Nazi party or Germany but then he only needed the SS for a really bad idea to be fulfilled.


well, it ought to be an interesting read i suppose, i guess. but it will probably take me a while as it is the bhagavad gita! not something i would want to rush through in its entirety. i do appreciate your summary and comments. it helps.


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:08 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:
i would really need to read the actual text to fully appreciate your post. (i will try to get around to that as i am curious).

so far i have been trying to piece together what i have read here, and also where i read about the person who killed gandhi seeing it as his "duty" to do so.

i would like to read the actual text to see how it might suggest to a person that it is their duty to kill gandhi. or in the case of himmler, how it would have played in that role.

considering the 2 accounts above, if, how i was thinking, as i suggested, IF, there is a bit of divinely sanctioned violence in the actual text, how might gandhi reconcile it? when you say "gandhi's translation with comments" i wonder if his translation is uniquely his own? somewhere along the way i am pretty sure i read mention that gandhi seemed to like jesus' sermon on the mount. which suggests to me that he wasn't on about the bhagavad gita ONLY…that he was okay with looking outside of hinduism to other inspirational figures, or moments?


There is a Civil War
Arjuna is the baddest Mofo on the field
Krishna drives his chariot
Arjuna has friends and relations on both sides
He dreads the thought of killing friends and relations
The friends and relations on both sides spells out that there are good and evil men on both sides(the nature thing)
Krishna confronts him about not doing his duty (which is killing friends and relations)
a dialectic on doing good or bad in the name of a greater good ensues

Gandhi believed that war and killing represents the extreme measure to emphasize the importance of Krishna's message

The Gita in a nutshell

Himmler believed Arjuna was his Aryan ancestor and made the teaching of the Gita SS textbook 101

This was not a widely held belief in either the Nazi party or Germany but then he only needed the SS for a really bad idea to be fulfilled.


well, it ought to be an interesting read i suppose, i guess. but it will probably take me a while as it is the bhagavad gita! not something i would want to rush through in its entirety. i do appreciate your summary and comments. it helps.


heraclitis wrote:

a dialectic on doing good or bad in the name of a greater good ensues


i mean, i don't feel i can really say a whole lot about it yet, but this part sounds a little scary, considering the brutality and treachery i have read in the bible, all with god's blessing. i rather fail to see that the greater good would require killing gandhi, something done by a person influenced by some message derived from the gita.


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:08 pm
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
but the Gita was Gandhi's guide, his numero uno link to the the supreme manifestation
He would have understood (I guess)


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:28 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
heraclitis wrote:
but the Gita was Gandhi's guide, his numero uno link to the the supreme manifestation
He would have understood (I guess)


was it really? or had he been trying to reconcile with something he had been brought up on?


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:53 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
but the Gita was Gandhi's guide, his numero uno link to the the supreme manifestation
He would have understood (I guess)


was it really? or had he been trying to reconcile with something he had been brought up on?


I couldn't say what issues swirled about in Gandhi's head but from his communications to the world he said he meditated daily on the words of the Gita particularly when he needed guidance in his life. He was a strange bird that one. He saw the world, the whole, moment to moment as just one great manifestation of god. His god was very different than most gods. His was an ecumenical dream of a great awakening to the truth (not salvation but the truth). Not through preachers and not through proselytizing but through method. Everyone had to learn their way of communicating with god. His way of teaching people about god was to show them how he did it. Instead of a this is how you touch god he said this is how I touch god and it has made me content. Ultimately, his inability to recognize barriers (some would say barriers of ignorance and others may say barriers of necessity) is what killed him. I would recommend reading Gandhi's annotated Gita actually. Not for the Gita so much as for Gandhi's view, he was unique.

It's funny I pulled out some country music I hadn't listened to in years last night. Don't know why. Just doing one of those just see whats on the shelf and go for something I had not heard in awhile. An incredibly beautiful evening out and I had a beer (a Sculpin IPA, very good beer) and I was enjoying the evening and listening to some country music. I was thinking about Gandhi and this stuff. I just recently saw David Crosby in one of his solo shows (he seems in a good place now) and when he sang the song Laughing. So I am thinking about Gandhi, a song about the truth at last (or maybe not), listening to country music with a good beer. I know what you are thinking, TIME FOR EPIPHANY. Naturally, I thought about the Harvard Psychedelic Club. The Timothy Leary conversion from gin to LSD and the zeitgeist gatherings of Leary, Ram Dass, Huston Smith and Andrew Weil all seeing a great psychedelic portal to the truth. The great Gandhi shortcut. Then the country music started playing a song about a dancing bear. I looked at my lawn figurines there..Buddha, a flute playing frog, a guitar playing turtle and a Ganeesha with tablas and I was thinking to myself in the greatest cosmic manifestation of the truth that hay, I think I will have another beer and enjoy some more Earth evening for awhile. So as I was finishing my beer and getting up to go get another one when the country music began the story of two motorcycle ridesr eating pickles and giving the dancing bear LSD.

I just thought that was pretty weird although it may not be the truth?


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:08 am
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
but the Gita was Gandhi's guide, his numero uno link to the the supreme manifestation
He would have understood (I guess)


was it really? or had he been trying to reconcile with something he had been brought up on?


I couldn't say what issues swirled about in Gandhi's head but from his communications to the world he said he meditated daily on the words of the Gita particularly when he needed guidance in his life. He was a strange bird that one. He saw the world, the whole, moment to moment as just one great manifestation of god. His god was very different than most gods. His was an ecumenical dream of a great awakening to the truth (not salvation but the truth). Not through preachers and not through proselytizing but through method. Everyone had to learn their way of communicating with god. His way of teaching people about god was to show them how he did it. Instead of a this is how you touch god he said this is how I touch god and it has made me content. Ultimately, his inability to recognize barriers (some would say barriers of ignorance and others may say barriers of necessity) is what killed him. I would recommend reading Gandhi's annotated Gita actually. Not for the Gita so much as for Gandhi's view, he was unique.

It's funny I pulled out some country music I hadn't listened to in years last night. Don't know why. Just doing one of those just see whats on the shelf and go for something I had not heard in awhile. An incredibly beautiful evening out and I had a beer (a Sculpin IPA, very good beer) and I was enjoying the evening and listening to some country music. I was thinking about Gandhi and this stuff. I just recently saw David Crosby in one of his solo shows (he seems in a good place now) and when he sang the song Laughing. So I am thinking about Gandhi, a song about the truth at last (or maybe not), listening to country music with a good beer. I know what you are thinking, TIME FOR EPIPHANY. Naturally, I thought about the Harvard Psychedelic Club. The Timothy Leary conversion from gin to LSD and the zeitgeist gatherings of Leary, Ram Dass, Huston Smith and Andrew Weil all seeing a great psychedelic portal to the truth. The great Gandhi shortcut. Then the country music started playing a song about a dancing bear. I looked at my lawn figurines there..Buddha, a flute playing frog, a guitar playing turtle and a Ganeesha with tablas and I was thinking to myself in the greatest cosmic manifestation of the truth that hay, I think I will have another beer and enjoy some more Earth evening for awhile. So as I was finishing my beer and getting up to go get another one when the country music began the story of two motorcycle ridesr eating pickles and giving the dancing bear LSD.

I just thought that was pretty weird although it may not be the truth?



that gandhi seemed like a pretty good guy really. it just makes me sad.

that second paragraph gave me a chuckle though


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:36 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:
that second paragraph gave me a chuckle though


EPIPHANYs are serious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uE80yoqlnQ


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:04 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:
that second paragraph gave me a chuckle though


EPIPHANYs are serious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uE80yoqlnQ


that poor bear


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:12 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:
heraclitis wrote:
agnes wrote:
that second paragraph gave me a chuckle though


EPIPHANYs are serious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uE80yoqlnQ


that poor bear


Epiphanys they never make any sense without some sort of interpretation?


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:55 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
heraclitis wrote:
Epiphanys they never make any sense without some sort of interpretation?


it sounds like you are referring to some kind of religious epiphany ?

or perhaps maybe even some kind of "induced" state ?


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:24 pm
  

User avatar
Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 15, 1999
Posts: 7269
musical interlude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nD5CT4vkCs


          Top  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:19 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 17, 2010
Posts: 1375
agnes wrote:

it sounds like you are referring to some kind of religious epiphany ?


Well what is an EPIPHANY without feeling you are a part of the (finger in the air) GREAT COSMIC REALITY!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPZk2O-ufa4

religious, well that seems an evolutionary dead end?

agnes wrote:
or perhaps maybe even some kind of "induced" state ?


sometimes sitting under the moon and stars and having a beer or two while listening to music induces my reality of choice

damnit i feel good in such an induced state

So, I guess the answer is yes instead of not this not that


          Top  
Reply with quote  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group