I imagine the great symphonic sounds playing across a cold desolate waste of frozen bodies and starving children, was it Leningrad or Sarajevo? I can picture Shostakovich stomping through the blood stained snow in Leningrad as the world is freezing and burning around him. He is slogging his way to the symphonic hall to play for the dead and dying, the only way he knows to deal with the winter of 1943 and maintain any semblance of sanity. Or maybe it is not Shostakovich at all but John Adams dreaming of the transmigration of souls as the ash and debris rain down on Manhattan on the 11th of September. These are but two of the indications of a structure that is blowing apart, a structure of human creation that has entered its final phase, it is a time to leap to a new dawn, a new era of growth beyond the artificial limitations man has created to control and manage the potential of the mind or is it a time of decline and hope for a more rigorous and adaptive rebirth or have we actually achieved the point where it is either jump to a new level or blow it all apart? I don’t know. But I ask humanity to redefine the lines that have been the byline of Western Man and brought us to this point, as they are the foundation of the walls and barriers that exist and have existed for the many millennia since man became cognitive of his potential on Earth. Now it is time to look inward, to address these words not to the future of man but to his past and to not look at them as a possession of a chosen people but of a chosen species (because yes we have been given stewardship of this planet whether of our choosing or not).

So, hear these words with introspect and don’t define the words in terms of petty human divisions: when reading them, but think I am no longer Hittite or Semite, German or Jew, Muslim or Christian, my only label is [i]Homo sapien [/i]and my only land is the planet Earth.

Deuteronomy 7
1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
12Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
13And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
14Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.
15And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.
16And thou shalt consume all the people which the LORD thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.
17If thou shalt say in thine heart, These nations are more than I; how can I dispossess them?
18Thou shalt not be afraid of them: but shalt well remember what the LORD thy God did unto Pharaoh, and unto all Egypt;
19The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the LORD thy God brought thee out: so shall the LORD thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid.
20Moreover the LORD thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed.
21Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.
22And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.
23But the LORD thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.
24And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.
25The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.
26Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

now who's holding out on who?

nothing is diminished!

Disclaimer: I am not religious nor is my intent to proselytize; I am just rambling around here!

I think it odd that the state of the universe, the ultimate failure of our world to cope with reality, comes down to the failure of the Hebrew to follow God's order to the letter of the law. The fact that most of the conflict that threatens our world today can be traced to a group of warring people wondering through the desert and failing to completely heed the word, that echoed through the holy land, that genocide must be practiced to eliminate those you usurp and that today the sound of genocide and jihad still echoes through those canyons driven on by the same ancient texts. While some where in Arkansas a preacher man states emphatically that the end of days the last generation has come and we are a part of it but not to fear, as we party at the alter in heaven we won't have to feel sorrow for those that failed to heed the call. God's grace will blanket us from the reality of poor uncle Willie screaming in the burning sulfur of Hades (he said Hades not hell, at first this would seem down right opposed to the word leaping from Deuteronomy 7, but then Hell in the modern form came from a Zoroastrian heritage).

THe end of days thing keeps popping throught the head as well, I mean that whole end of days thing is such a drag. Yet, my own initial outburst that for what ever reason (I really don't know) I was compelled to leave here speaks of the end of days, just as the the Good Shepherds Chapel in Arkansas does. THe difference, those Good ol' boys who are proselytizing for a buck down in Arkansas welcome the end of days as a fear tactic to help affect the bottom line. The sell freedom from fear in the final hour of this world as we know it and therefore they can support the policies (with votes and money) of men who, like them, interpret the words of passages such as Deuteronomy 7 literally, that Joshua was a Military genius but a sad and sorry excuse of the executer of God's word. Was he swayed by the Harlot or can man stomach only so much blood. Or maybe God was wrong as he says take the women and children and use them and the men who won't fight, take them as servants under the yoke. As servant, maybe there tainted seed escaped the toils and created the dagger that would stab Israel in the back and scatter the chosen people across the land. That God sounds to be a cruel bastard!

and now for headline news

Bush Uses Bin Laden Quotes for War Rally

well don't that beat all

please excuse my timing!

well you know, you never struck me as religious exactly (long pause) or a proselytizer (that word proselyte always sounded like something pretty, whatever that's supposed to mean) but anyway, my take at the moment seems to be that you might be wanting to encourage a dialogue?? (not a fist fight) on some pretty tough subjects which has the potential of being a healthy perhaps beneficial thing to do.
(but don't forget to come out just to play too, eh?)

i will say (not that i'm exactly sure you were asking for that) that this is a tough subject for me. the idea of love (jesus spoke of love now and again) sounded good to me, but i've had some trouble with other stuff i've read in the bible...at one time i was brought to tears trying to reconcile, on another time i was brought to anger. and who can forget the guy who seems to go off saying it's "all vanity!" at some point i thought it was best that i leave it alone and just try and do the best i can. i am not atheist but haven't connected too well with any organized type religion. there are people who i really like a lot who are on various sides of the issue...there are so many sides. i don't know!

i'm not sure i can do any better than that at the moment, but i wouldn't mind seeing a dialogue open up.

I heard that good shepherd fellow on the TV say that all those who have been saved go to heaven around the age of 30 no matter when they die or how long they have been dead! He knows a lot of stuff. But i heard God talking in the ceiling fan last night while I was sleeping and he said that you can't believe everything in the Bible, like Deuteronomy 7, He says he was a Contrary, a Coyote, a Trickster at that time and he doesn't really endorse Genocide. I asked him if he was a contrary when he hinted at the rapture! I asked if he used his contrary nature to identify the loonies and genocide crazed wall building maniacs so he could take them all away at one time. The fan made a wobbly sound and I felt the presence of God had gone> OK Bye Bye

the coffee grounds spoke with the authority of Gabriel and said God is Omni-Potent and does not need cheap tricks to achieve his goals

Is God being Contrary again? The coffee was good and hot though! THank you God, that I don't fear getting coffee at the local market, no one has tied explosive to their bodies and made the quick exit to immediately realize your grace in my neighborhood.

A prayer in a contrary world!

now i fear my neighbors will break down my door and burn me at the stake

oh God, will your tricks never end?

but wasn't Jesus' crime blasphemy and communicating with God.

Oh, that wiley Coyote!

well i do appreciate a good anthropomorphic experience.

while i was reading through this the words "good shepherd" sort of jump out at me because just a day or two prior to this thread i'd looked up the lyrics to jefferson airplanes "good shepherd" just because i always liked the sound of the song.
here they are...

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jefferson+ ... 70326.html

That was neat reading that stuff from Deuteronimy. (I bet I spelled that wrong which I shouldn't as long as I've been a believer lol). Anyway it reminded me of my 1969 King James Bible. My folks got it for me that Christmas. Sicne then I've collected a number of othger Bibles esp this yr. Mike got me a Sword Bible for our aniiversary. It's a King James Bible without the Thees, Thous & eths etc where they've been changed to their more modern counterparts & next to each verse it explains what the old words mean. I love it! I found a paperback pocketsized one in Beckley, WV in the mall there & got me one & Mike one. It's so easy to read. I bet that preacher the She[herd guy in Arnold Murray from Gravitte, Ark. I've watched him some & he seems pretty good. I think Loretta Lynn used to date him some...

uh oh.... this means that Cheryl now knows what the bible meant with all that Begatting goin' on!!!

begattin' is the original sin.....never did figure that one out?

I thought everybody was begotton?

Bush: Secret CIA Prisons a 'Vital' Tool

Confused headline of the day!

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200609 ... TFA00.html