Well, that sounds very reasonable. It's a very difficult situation that we find ourselves in. It seems from that statement that the ACLU recognizes that and is trying to safeguard constitutional within the context of the current reality. That's not an easy job.

Things have changed to such an extent, in such a short time that it's still mind boggling. Does anyone else feel as though October was about three times as long as the average month? The church shows were not even a month ago and seem really distant now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pat:
(snip)
Things have changed to such an extent, in such a short time that it's still mind boggling. Does anyone else feel as though October was about three times as long as the average month? (snip)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Psssst ... Pat ... October didn't just seem 3 times longer. It really was three times longer than usual ...


Uh ... Wasn't it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by muffy:

Psssst ... Pat ... October didn't just seem 3 times longer. It really was three times longer than usual ...


Uh ... Wasn't it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

October had 2 full moons, so I think that means it was actually 2 months long.

The words of the First Amendment that define and protect our freedoms are a living garden. Tend them, for your very lives. They are being pruned and uprooted every day, in all walks of our American life. Without them, we are nothing. Worthless. Gone.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:

October had 2 full moons, so I think that means it was actually 2 months long.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends on where you live, Larry...

In the Eastern time zone, the moon was full this morning at 12:41, and the next full moon (blue) is on Nov. 30... so there was only one full moon in October.

Of course, in all the other time zones in the States, the moon was full last nite before midnite, and so was an October Blue Moon...

I believe our time perception was directly affected by Celery Time... and that last night (before or after midnite, depending on where you are) we had a Celery moon

Oh. That explains it! But, to take it another step, if it's true that there were two full moons in October in some parts of the country, and only one in others, that means that our moon is being selectively oblivious! And that means that we folks who practice selective obliviosity have a lot in common with the moon, which means we must all be lunatics! WOO-HOO!!! Bumper???????

I don't see any obliviousity in this, Larry. I do see time going by a different rates for different folks, so it could be a Stephen Foster moon or a Ring Around the Rosie Moon, but i think that Wyldflower is right and it was a Celery moon. So, then does that mean that in the east we get a Celery moon in Novemember, and since it's so close to Thanksgiving, maybe it's more like a Celery and Olives moon? Or just a relish tray moon..it always comes back to food, doesn't it?

i think u r both right, Larry & Pat, i think it was a blue moon, everywhere, last night, but, one's specific geography may have prevented one from seeing it before midnight, hence, lunar selective oblivi-bla..blah bllah...
and I think Pat's right, there were some radishes flyin around, last month, with the celery, so, maybe a condiment moon???
"hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us..."

Just to get a little bit back on topic here, I thought I'd let you know about the one aspect of Wayne's and my trip that was a bit scary...

The whole trip was great... we flew out of Montreal to London, then on to Copenhagen... and then by train to Sweden... then the same route in reverse.

The last leg of our trip, security was all over Heathrow Airport... you could see police officers at various locations throughout the place. (There were no armed guards that we could see... though I'm sure they were there in the case of need... but then, they have been accustomed to higher security for far longer than we have in the States.)

We went through the check-in procedures, had our carry-ons checked, etc... along with about 200 other passengers traveling with us. Then finally we were directed through a door where security was pulling a few people aside for further checking. When we finally boarded the plane, we went to our assigned seats, which were occupied by a family that had taken the wrong seats. While waiting for the cabin crew to come straighten this out, a police officer was talking with a gentleman two rows in front of us. (We did not hear what was being said.)

A few minutes later, we were seated, and the police officer and the man he had been speaking with were gone. An announcement came over the speaker, that one of the passengers had decided not to take this flight, and that we would be delayed for a short time. Then the crew came through our cabin, and verified that all carry-on baggage was accounted for... Once that was accomplished, our captain made the announcement that we would be taking off shortly, and that the passenger who left the plane had been escorted off by the police because they had noted a discrepancy in his ticket. (Incidentally, the man appeared to be of middle eastern origin.) The captain also stated that the man's baggage had been removed from the hold and that the cabin had been checked for anything he may have left on board.

I really didn't think there was anything to worry about, but I could not really relax during the flight home... and if there was any problem with this individual, I am glad that he was removed from the plane... but the fact that it came to the point that he was actually sitting on the plane was somewhat unsettling...

Yes I will fly again, soon, if the opportunity presents... and I have no real qualms about security measures... I just hope that we're doing as good a job of it here as is being done in other countries. I don't know if security in other places is under the national government or not, but it seems that makes sense to me. This is one place where I am willing to give up some of my rights in order to ensure safety.

Peace, Love, Music & (((HUGS)))
~Wyldflower

wow..i can see where that would be a bit scary and unsettling, wyldflower. glad everything worked out okay, and you got home safe and sound! well, being a blunderite, sound is probably a relative concept...

The airline security thing is definitely a problem. One thing is for sure, what we've done in the past isn't enough. The people who are big on keeping privatization should try working at minimum wage jobs for a while to refresh their memories about how people feel about those jobs. This theory about not being able to fire people is kind of silly. Mr. Customs Man is a federal employee and we know he's devoted to his work and has special abilities, too. Seriously, though, if you want people to do a job well and be consciencious about it, it has to be on a career track and involve a living wage.


The rights thing is just difficult, but I do believe it'll get worked out in time, although probably not perfectly. What we have in general is really a compromise between freedom and security anyway. I mean, we don't have total freedom, and where it's a matter of security of the citizenry it's always being negotiated through the courts and the arena of public opinion. That hasn't really changed, but what we feel about various security measures has undergone quite a change.

I think our revered Gov, in Calif couldn't stand it anymore. He missed the presses' white glow Now that we are miraculously rescued from power shortageso now, we get Gov Grey, in the role of Chicken Little, "the bridges are gonna fall"
Dear Whoever made that threat;
I'm crossing the Golden Bridge, Sat, nov 3rd, southbound, aprox 10 am, so, PPPTTTWWWWWHHHTTTHHWWWP!!!

Well, okie dokie. I'd stay off the damned things, but that's just me. They did say they weren't certain of the authenticity of the threat, but really, considering the surrounding circumstances, would you prefer if the governor didn't share a specific threat with the public and just let 'em take their chances without that information? If they hear anything about the NY bridges, I sure want to know about it.

Just keep those little planes out of the airspace around any nuclear power plants, please. Living on Capitol Hill meant being in the "drift zone" of Three Mile Island, and no thanks, no more of that for me in this lifetime, if you don't mind.

As far as airline security and liberties and such... I really don't see how ensuring my personal safety infringes on my liberties or personal freedom. Of course, if the security personnel is well trained, there isn't a conflict there, either -- or there shouldn't be one. And it wouldn't hurt to send said personnel over to European and Middle Eastern airports as a part of the training process, precisely because they do have a lot more experience in that particular area. Personally, I think it's madness not to have federal agents on board flights as a matter of course. It's the same principle as having a beat cop or subway security (the latter, incidentally, worked extremely well for the D.C. subway system).

Your experience does sound a bit nerve-wracking, Wyld. Yes, I'm sure that passenger did "decide" not to take that trip after all, and from the sound of it, you're lucky that he was given the opportunity to "make the right decision", as it were. Yiiiiii.

missed this by a few days, Oct.29,1941 but I bet the song came out today so it is still on time.


Have you heard of the ship called the good Reuben James?
Filled with hard fighting men, of honor and of fame
She flew the stars and stripes of the land of the free
Now she's in her grave at the bottom of the sea
chorus:
Tell me what were their names,
tell me what were there names?
did you have a friend on the good reuben james?

It was there in the dark of that uncertain night
that we watched for the u-boat, and waited for the fight
the fire and the rock and the great explosions roar
and they laid the reuben james on the cold ocean floor
chorus
One hundred men went down to their dark watery grave
when that good ship went down only forty four were savrd
twas the last day of october that they saved forty four
from the cold icy water and the cold icy shore
chorus
Now there are lights in our country so bright
and in the farms and the villages their telling of the fight
Now our mighty battleships steam the bounding main
and remember the name of the good reuben james
chorus
(photo and lyrics from the Woody Guthrie )