ArloNet • Interesting

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

In response to the recent lawsuit by God against intelligent design,
Press Secretary Tony Snow called an impromptu press conference at the White House. Secretary Tony Snow says that the President has trouble with God being what he is. A mid confusion Snow further commented that the President feels that "God has no business getting involved in the affairs of man." When pressed about this sudden reversal in opinion and hasn't the President just using the name of God when it’s convenient? Secretary Snow replied with a resounding, "No comment!"

agnes · **Joined:** Sep 15, 1999 **Posts:** 8352

cliffite wrote:

agnes wrote:

the story of don quixote is definitely better read than seen on tv.

what about we who can not read? the illiterati

sure, that's easy for you to say!

cliffite · **Posted:** Thu May 31, 2007 1:12 am

PSBeaty wrote:

A fool must choose his mount wisely!

We have traveled far from this, but I must say that I have laid claim to Kid Shelleen's noble steed as my own. Onward thru the fog!

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

Don't pull that Oat Willie's stuff on me!

Ceashel · **Posted:** Thu May 31, 2007 3:17 am

Cliffite wrote:

Onward through the fog...

PSBeaty wrote:

Don't pull that Oat Willie's stuff on me!

You two really know how to sweet-talk a girl! :-)

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

We interupt this love fest for a report of a new development in the Lawsuit filed by God against the Intelligent Design Consortium:

We have learned that a young woman who has turned to a rather unsavory lifestyle in order to survive the failures of social economic policies and continuing destabilization of her homeland through war and threat of violence is reported to have seen a vision of a Messiah. She said she was at a well thinking of how murky the waters of life had become when she looked up and saw a man on a jack ass in a dirty robe and funky sandals with long hair and a beard standing there at the well. Her first thought was not now, not now, I don’t need your business, not now! Then she looked at him and she realized he was smiling and he told her he loved her and none of it mattered then he handed her a cassette tape and then he drove his ass away. She threw the tape away at first but before she left she had it in her hand and eventually played it in the crowded apartment she shared with others of her profession and their off spring. The recording was transcribed by one in attendance and reads as follows:

This is the Son of Man with a comment on the God’s Lawsuit. Now Genesis and Exodus are two of my favorite reads. It says in there 2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. (I might be the fruity Son of Man but that sounds like it could be a poetic description of the BIG BANG!). Then it says: In the sweat of they face thou shall eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it was thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return (sounds like these fragile human forms that contain the “mystery of life” are just dust, as are the monkeys and the mice and the nutrients in the primordial soup). The human form can at times be powerfully enticing as it is one of God’s master pieces (don’t think I never noticed the shape of a pretty brown leg, among other things). But God is a pretty creative entity and the human form is one of many beautiful things!. The Bible continues: And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush; and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Now that is something for the Son of Man to worship, not the form of the bush or the human but the fire that burns within, God’s gift! So, verily I say unto you, there are three commandments that those who have possessed and used God for their purposes often overlook: Thou shall have no other gods before me (if god is neutral on evolution then isn’t an intelligent design god a new god). Thou shalt not make yourself an idol (separating the form of man from the rest of God’s glory even though he clearly describes it as dust, could be idolatry). Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of your God (if you use God for political or commercial reasons you better be sure you possess the appropriate waivers).

Just some thoughts from the Son of Man! Have a nice day!

The tape was apparantly destroyed in a mysterious set of circumstances involving the local authorities. When asked to comment, the preacher in the temple said, "Why would he choose those people, if that was the true Messiah why didn't he come to me?" The village pastor who was comforting the group involved, when informed of this comment, said "no comment necessary!"

We now return you to your regularly scheduled non sense.

cliffite · **Posted:** Thu May 31, 2007 8:19 am

PSBeaty wrote:

Don't pull that Oat Willie's stuff on me!

but I so love his steedless chariot!!!

Arnie · **Posted:** Thu May 31, 2007 9:55 am

I think you need to get max or his attorneys to file another lawsuit... note this opinion piece in todays NY Times:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 31, 2007
Op-Ed Contributor
What I Think About Evolution
By SAM BROWNBACK
Washington

IN our sound-bite political culture, it is unrealistic to expect that every complicated issue will be addressed with the nuance or subtlety it deserves. So I suppose I should not have been surprised earlier this month when, during the first Republican presidential debate, the candidates on stage were asked to raise their hands if they did not “believe” in evolution. As one of those who raised his hand, I think it would be helpful to discuss the issue in a bit more detail and with the seriousness it demands.

The premise behind the question seems to be that if one does not unhesitatingly assert belief in evolution, then one must necessarily believe that God created the world and everything in it in six 24-hour days. But limiting this question to a stark choice between evolution and creationism does a disservice to the complexity of the interaction between science, faith and reason.

The heart of the issue is that we cannot drive a wedge between faith and reason. I believe wholeheartedly that there cannot be any contradiction between the two. The scientific method, based on reason, seeks to discover truths about the nature of the created order and how it operates, whereas faith deals with spiritual truths. The truths of science and faith are complementary: they deal with very different questions, but they do not contradict each other because the spiritual order and the material order were created by the same God.

People of faith should be rational, using the gift of reason that God has given us. At the same time, reason itself cannot answer every question. Faith seeks to purify reason so that we might be able to see more clearly, not less. Faith supplements the scientific method by providing an understanding of values, meaning and purpose. More than that, faith — not science — can help us understand the breadth of human suffering or the depth of human love. Faith and science should go together, not be driven apart.

The question of evolution goes to the heart of this issue. If belief in evolution means simply assenting to microevolution, small changes over time within a species, I am happy to say, as I have in the past, that I believe it to be true. If, on the other hand, it means assenting to an exclusively materialistic, deterministic vision of the world that holds no place for a guiding intelligence, then I reject it.

There is no one single theory of evolution, as proponents of punctuated equilibrium and classical Darwinism continue to feud today. Many questions raised by evolutionary theory — like whether man has a unique place in the world or is merely the chance product of random mutations — go beyond empirical science and are better addressed in the realm of philosophy or theology.

The most passionate advocates of evolutionary theory offer a vision of man as a kind of historical accident. That being the case, many believers — myself included — reject arguments for evolution that dismiss the possibility of divine causality.

Ultimately, on the question of the origins of the universe, I am happy to let the facts speak for themselves. There are aspects of evolutionary biology that reveal a great deal about the nature of the world, like the small changes that take place within a species. Yet I believe, as do many biologists and people of faith, that the process of creation — and indeed life today — is sustained by the hand of God in a manner known fully only to him. It does not strike me as anti-science or anti-reason to question the philosophical presuppositions behind theories offered by scientists who, in excluding the possibility of design or purpose, venture far beyond their realm of empirical science.

Biologists will have their debates about man’s origins, but people of faith can also bring a great deal to the table. For this reason, I oppose the exclusion of either faith or reason from the discussion. An attempt by either to seek a monopoly on these questions would be wrong-headed. As science continues to explore the details of man’s origin, faith can do its part as well. The fundamental question for me is how these theories affect our understanding of the human person.

The unique and special place of each and every person in creation is a fundamental truth that must be safeguarded. I am wary of any theory that seeks to undermine man’s essential dignity and unique and intended place in the cosmos. I firmly believe that each human person, regardless of circumstance, was willed into being and made for a purpose.

While no stone should be left unturned in seeking to discover the nature of man’s origins, we can say with conviction that we know with certainty at least part of the outcome. Man was not an accident and reflects an image and likeness unique in the created order. Those aspects of evolutionary theory compatible with this truth are a welcome addition to human knowledge. Aspects of these theories that undermine this truth, however, should be firmly rejected as an atheistic theology posing as science.

Without hesitation, I am happy to raise my hand to that.

Sam Brownback is a Republican senator from Kansas.

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

Faith seeks to purify reason

What? THat is a great line!

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

The Psalm of Shawn (Careful now, this ones hot)

I believe there is a massive force of energy that is being dissipated that defines my universe
I can’t personally conceptualize its genesis, but the poetic versions in the Tanakh and King James Bible are beautiful
I believe the sun to be a small bit of this concentrated energy and its force defines the world, as I know it
I believe that a small portion of the energy from the sun is absorbed and dissipated on the planets that circle it
I believe that the energy is captured at many frequencies from the grand scale to the pico scale
I believe that the poetry of a wheel within a wheel as Ezekiel experienced is as good a description of this as any modern physics text
I believe on a global scale that the energy is absorbed by the oceans and is dissipated by the division of hot and cold spots on the planet created by relative distance from the sun
I believe that the relative exposure of the North/South hemispheres to the sun create turbulence in the hot and cold regions that result in weather patterns
I believe the energy absorbed by the ocean is dissipated in dramatic events called hurricanes, monsoons and tornados and it represents a model for all dissipative systems including life
I believe life evolved on this planet because a planet with life dissipates energy more effectively than a planet without life and no rival systems were around at creation
Was there a guiding hand, I believe the poetic versions in the Tanakh and King James Versions are beautiful
I believe plants evolved to store energy from the sun because ultimately more energy is dissipated than stored
I believe animals evolved to eat the stored energy of the plants because it resulted in a greater net decrease in potential energy than waiting for a fire to burn it up
I believe baby sea turtles swim to the Ocean because they can sense its energy not because they were born with an innate sense that the Ocean is its mother, OOMMM
I believe the random sea turtle that heads toward land does so because he lacks proper sensory equipment and not because he is just generally contrary (OK I am squishy on this one...I like to think of the contrary sea turtle)
I believe intelligence evolved because intelligent life can dissipate energy more effectively than non-intelligent life (they figured out how to dig up the energy that hadn’t been eaten and was laying around in black pools and set fire to it)
I believe societies evolved because groups of men (and women) got pretty good at dissipating energy and were are more effective at it than individuals
I believe philosophy evolved because man got pretty good at thinking about it all, sitting in caves looking at full moons possibly with cactus buds, who knows
I believe religion evolved as a way and means for man to handle the harsh reality of survival and death and war and stuff and rational philosophy just did not cut it
I believe in the beauty in the poetry of the Jews, the Tao, the Bhagavad Gita, the Jesus people and the Qur’an and that it transcends rational philosophy
I believe there was a revolutionary movement of poets headed by a number of spiritual leaders that preached something different and fell under the name of Jesus People in the time of the Romans
I believe the tenets of that movement were subsequently co-opted to create a savior myth, a Roman Church, a Catholic Church, an Orthodox Church, a Muslim Religion, A Protestant Religion and a thousand variants of each (because you know denomination ain’t a thing but a name and that’s all)
I believe the book of Leviticus is the strangest book in the Old Testament and that John went beyond cactus buds on that island of Patmos in the New Testament
I believe you can believe whatever you want to believe as long as you don’t impinge on my right to believe and you don’t take Leviticus seriously (save the goats and stuff)
I believe that if the estimated 6.5 billion brains on this planet can’t get together and function in a cooperative effort in the next 100 years the dance of Shiva will cease to be a myth

(originally posted in Nov 2004..time flies)

leoburg · **Posted:** Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:52 pm

The GOD the church and state have made, does not exist. Life existed in this Space before we all ened up here on Earth. This earth is our last chance to get it right. People living in Unity among all beings. Some may not like the fact, that it will take a combination of Socialism and free enterprise to get freedom.
I'll repeat, life existed before Dog. I'm so sick of what people call him, I will always spell it backwards.
If the truth of life was told on the slime ozzing out of the TV set, it would bring about Peace. I see the fruits of lies every night.

PSBeaty · **Joined:** Oct 18, 2004 **Posts:** 2251

Rocinante and I have been out walking. We ended up at the site with the link below and I heard in the swoosh of one hand clapping an idea for a game. SO, anybody curious about a little adventure, wander over there and look at a post called I Believe under the heading of The Existence of God(s).

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

Ceashel · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Bravo; well said. You ended with "Did I get anything wrong or leave something out?..." I can't think what it would be.

agnes · **Joined:** Sep 15, 1999 **Posts:** 8352

"Let me explain my confusion"

now there is a line!

i should probably have it stamped across my forehead!
probably i shouldn't actually...

but on a more seriouser note, i think this line is very important
" I believe that if the estimated 6.5 billion brains on this planet can’t get together and function in a cooperative effort in the next 100 years the dance of Shiva will cease to be a myth"

i think about this sometimes, if we hoo-mons can't get it together...i mean it could be so much better, if only we would...
(now maybe cliff knows what i meant when i said something about being easy for him to say)

okay i'll be back later

leoburg · **Posted:** Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:40 pm

Oh, I hope this 6 billin plus people on this planet do fet together. Ike said, someday they will demand peace so much, that the govs. will have to step aside and give it to them.
I will knock the R. right for being no real help in bringing about peace. It is in Jeremiah 23 too. They support capitalism run amuck. And I see how Jer 23 says today, "From the prophets of the church, polution has spread throughout this land."
But I believe in the day of the Branch in Zechariah 3 where in one day the iniquity of this land will be taken away. That Brothers ,and sisters is the day I dream of.

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