I don't believe we get a lot of oil from Israel. In fact, it would probably be easier to get oil if we backed the HAMAS and rejected that whole Israel/Zionist thing. Of course the Evangelical Christians would get pissed off because that would spoil there whole end of days scenario! Then there is the whole WW2 Christian guilt trip too!

I guess a fairly large and vocal Jewish population also tends to let's say, scew the objectivity of the US to the situation as well!

Quote:"The only reason we hear so much or are involved is because of our need for excess energy, namely oil."
"I am quite sure, if it were no for this, most of the events there would go virtually unnoticed here, as they do with other places."

Good point -12bar, What is good for the ME is good for the US. The influence of oil, none of which is in Israel, but in the greater region where the neighbors are for the most part allied with the Palestinians.

Israel depends on imports of crude oil, grains, raw materials, and military equipment. Despite limited natural resources, Israel has intensively developed its agricultural and industrial sectors over the past 20 years. Israel imports substantial quantities of grain but is largely self-sufficient in other agricultural products. Cut diamonds, high-technology equipment, and agricultural products (fruits and vegetables) are the leading exports. Israel usually posts sizable trade deficits, which are covered by large transfer payments from abroad and by foreign loans. Roughly half of the government's external debt is owed to the US, its major source of economic and military aid.

The West Bank - the larger of the two areas comprising the Palestinian Authority - has experienced a general decline in economic conditions since the second intifada began in September 2000. The downturn has been largely a result of Israeli closure policies - the imposition of closures and access restrictions in response to security concerns in Israel - which disrupted labor and trading relationships. In 2001, and even more severely in 2002, Israeli military measures in PA areas resulted in the destruction of capital, the disruption of administrative structures, and widespread business closures. International aid of at least $1.14 billion to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 2004 prevented the complete collapse of the economy and allowed some reforms in the government's financial operations. In 2005, high unemployment and limited trade opportunities - due to continued closures both within the West Bank and externally - stymied growth. Israel's and the international community's financial embargo of the PA when HAMAS ran the PA during March 2006 - June 2007 has interrupted the provision of PA social services and the payment of PA salaries. Since June the Fayyad government in the West Bank has restarted salary payments and the provision of services but would be unable to operate absent high levels of international assistance.

High population density, limited land access, and strict internal and external security controls have kept economic conditions in the Gaza Strip - the smaller of the two areas under the Palestinian Authority - even more degraded than in the West Bank. The beginning of the second intifada in September 2000 sparked an economic downturn, largely the result of Israeli closure policies; these policies, which were imposed to address security concerns in Israel, disrupted labor and trade access to and from the Gaza Strip. In 2001, and even more severely in 2003, Israeli military measures in PA areas resulted in the destruction of capital, the disruption of administrative structures, and widespread business closures. The Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in September 2005 offered some medium-term opportunities for economic growth, but continued Israeli-imposed crossings closures, which became more restrictive after Hamas violently took over the territory in June 2007, have resulted in widespread private sector layoffs and shortages of most goods.


Quote:"However, the conflicts in the mid east have been going on a long time."
"One can go back as far as the first Egyptian dynasty of Narmer in 3100BC."
"So if you take 3100 BC add it to 2009 AD that give s total of 5109 years of strife."
"The conflict centers around ideologies and religion."
"I have no doubt will continue to do so for the next thousand years."
"There is simply too much hate and animosity to disappear in one generation."

Well lets apply the 12bar philosophy to any long running conflict in history that involved ideologies and/or religion.

Is it then the best thing that could be done, to just stay out of it?
Because it seems there is simply too much hate and animosity to be able to find a way to solve it, to walk away?

I'm not so sure.

Quote:"In fact, it would probably be easier to get oil if we backed the HAMAS and rejected that whole Israel/Zionist thing."

There's a new sheriff in town. I wonder what he thinks?

Is the timing of this "defensive attack" related to fear of Obama and change?

Tick, tick, tick...two weeks from today. Time will tell.

What difference does it make? There are babies dying and we are privy to it. If you take "we" as the United States, we are the baby killers. At least that is my take on what PS was saying.

I never killed no baby! and (now don't get mad at me) I have seen nothing here that makes me change my MANTRA on the subject

Death In Gaza

Death In Gaza (DIG) is so profound a statement.


Here is my equally profound statement, equally relevent to DIG...


Wormwood Tastes Good


Goofus - Yes, I'm a baby killer, and I'm not happy about it. While I do financially support the killing of innocent people of all ages by paying taxes used in doing so, I am at the same time morally against the killing of innocent people. I want to fix it and that's at best a noble wish today, but in 13 days that may change. Obama brings hope.

So if your question of what difference does it make was in reference to my new sheriff statement - my answer is I have hope that the new admin will take a more pragmatic approach to problems, not just in the ME, but everywhere. What problems can DIG solve?

We, the US, still have the power to influence the world, and I look forward to this influence becoming much more humanitarian and much less militaristic.

we in the US are just another bunch of confused humans groping our way into the future

http://www.sonyclassics.com/waltzwithbashir/

this statement makes sense to me

Perhaps this is not about hate and animosity so much but about the power of God's promise to Abraham?

I am not a biblical scholar , perhaps there are others who can speak better to this, but it seems to me that if you believe the Jews are the chosen people, that would certainly create an entirely different perspective as to how they have been able to survive hell on earth for 5109 years.

I believe the conflict revolves around the fact that one population of humans has successfully displaced another population of humans within the same physical and ecological boundaries. This all happened in the last 100 years. It just so happens the invaders, who claim a previous right to the area, have successfully created a dominant position based on ties to support groups (all with selfish agendas) from a strong "Diaspora" and others with "religious agendas" developed over those thousands of years you speak of and now centered (primarily) in the US. Of course this all follows a rather ugly and inhuman 20th century. I think it interesting that the original Zionists who successfully created Israel were generally far more secular than the current inhabitants having rejected many of their notions of god given the state of their race in 1946. It is also interesting that a coalition has evolved between fundamentalist Christians with an anti-Semitic past and fundamentalist Jews who are amazing survivors of Christian pogroms and hatred all in order to create the illusion of prophecy fulfilled.

I just want to point out there are other Diasporas in this world that have had similar Religious and socio-geopolitical issues (the Irish, the Indian and the Chinese come to mind) as that of the Jew. The Jewish delusion is just so bizarrely entwined with the Christian delusion that it makes for an explosive combination in this world of mass psychosis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ERNVIch ... re=related

or my personal favorite version because it speaks to today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swtUcnjy ... re=related



Perhaps you could expound on this, and the relevance to the long running conflict? It disturbs me that I started studying this conflict in 5 th grade.

Wow...



No argument there. I just put an absinthe label over the hole in my guitar (not the sound hole, but the one I put in it).



Can you say the same about microbes?



I'm afraid the big guy up there in heaven is looking down with his head in his hands saying: "That is not the promised land...".

Yes, you said it. It seems this way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIjM4XdIngM