Can anyone say "spin control"???

It was a bullshit executive order enacted by Reagen based on Bullshit Christian Morality that keeps badly needed medical resources from those who need it! I wish there had been an abortion clinic in Nazareth a couple a thousand years ago myself, but that is just me!

Even if there was - God would still have prevailed and Jesus would have been born regardless, to save lives rather than destroying them. And despite the seperation of church and state our founding fathers were believers and followers and much law was enacted that was supportive of that "Bullshit Christian Morality".

And frankly if there was more of that Christian Morality around - this country would be in a much better shape. Instead there are real consequences to those who turn their backs. Pride cometh before the fall.

In God We Trust! And every knee shall bow...

booglie wooglie booglie
the boogie man's outside the door
and spirits and demons and
darkness and vampires and
it is so scary

I'd like to see taxes made voluntary, at least to some extent -- allow those who oppose abortion to re-direct their taxes to other programs, allow pacifists to redirect taxes away from the military, allow me to redirect my taxes from supporting construction that benefits drivers (roads, etc.) to public transit and construction of jails for drivers who don't stop for me.

I don't think poor Jesus should be blamed for what some of his supporters have turned him into. And Dave is right that someone else would have come along to be misunderstood and misrepresented if Jesus hadn't.

I was reminded reading this thread of one of my favorite passages from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's Letters and Papers from Prison:

"I often ask myself why a 'Christian instinct' often draws me more to the religionless people than to the religious, by which I don't in the least mean with any evangelizing intention, but, I might almost say, 'in brotherhood'. While I'm often reluctant to mention God by name to religious people -- because that name somehow seems to me here not to ring true, and I feel myself to be slightly dishonest (it's particularly bad when others start to talk in religious jargon; I then dry up almost completely and feel awkward and uncomfortable) -- to people with no religion I can on occasion mention him by name quite calmly and as a matter of course. Religious people speak of God when human knowledge (perhaps simply because they are too lazy to think) has come to an end, or when human resources fail -- in fact it is always the deus ex machina that they bring on to the scene, either for the apparent solution of insoluble problems, or as strength in human failure -- always, that is to say, exploiting human weakness or human boundaries. Of necessity, that can go on only till people can by their own strength push these boundaries somewhat further out, so that God becomes superfluous as a deus ex machina. I've come to be doubtful of talking about any human boundaries (is even death, which people now hardly fear, and is sin, which they now hardly understand, still a genuine boundary today?). It always seems to me that we are trying anxiously in this way to reserve some space for God; I should like to speak of God not on the boundaries but at the centre, not in weaknesses, but in strength; and therefore not in death and guilt but in man's life and goodness."

-Letter to Eberhard Bethge, from Tegel prison, 4/30/44 (about 1 year before Bonhoeffer was executed) (Note -- all of the parentheticals are in his original text; I didn't add them).

I love this passage because it captures the way my stomach reacts to people like Rick Warren (who is only the latest example of a certain breed of Christian) and because it reminds me that there are Christians out there who do not see Jesus and God as tools (either literal or figurative) to beat up others with.

While it is true Obama is a politician, he will have many much more significant decisions coming in the next 4 years, and yes, some of the big ones will not so coincidentally coincide with mid year elections, etc. His top strategist, David Axelrod, is acutely aware of the timing of every decision, and will successfully steer the Obama administration over much rougher waters and through many tighter waterways than this one. So, yes, Dave, you are right. They knew what they were doing.

That being said....so what?
There is little need to clamor about executing this reversal. It was expected and was housekeeping detail. Like doing your expense report on Friday afternoon.

It is a fact, there is a law, and ruling on the right to control a woman’s childbearing choice is illegal. It is time to put aside the fear. The courts are not a judicatory vehicle for Christian values. It seems we have had our county run by putting these issues in the forefront. To me, by not spotlighting this reversal, by not calling a press conference and making a big media event of this, Obama demonstrates change.

Like I said this is an absurd Christian Coalition Sponsored ping pong politics thing that had to be lifted because it is the moral thing to do! Clinton did it and now Obama did it! Its fodder for FOX News pundits to get on a high horse and point to how evil people are who don't believe in using religious propaganda as a political tool. That is why Dave brought it up as it is easy pickings in the stink bomb the liberal process!!! As far as Christians and morality...well how bought the Dachau Blues

Dachau Blues
Gonna burn some Jews

Is was the Christians who corroborated with the Nazis

And don’t forget

Both Osama Bin Laden and GW Bush were sponsored by God!

Hopefully the funding will go to help people instead of doing abortions. We hope...

I hope we put limitations on sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS and plagues of all sorts because we know...THESE THINGS ARE THE WILL OF GOD (in a deep voice echoing loudly down the hallway!)

We are talking about clinics just trying to survive under a multitude of adverse conditions..right!!!! Oh wait, I got confused....That is the clinic down the street here in beautiful PA!

Thread's gettin' a might weird for me.

"So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye!"

It is a weird world!

Actually that was not my intended meaning at all. What I was trying to say that it is my belief that God will not be denied and if there had been a bunch of abortionests in Nazareth, he would have probably either changed settings or come up with some plan with the same results. The story of Herod and the wise men immediately comes to mind. Jesus was coming and nothing was going to stop that from happening. If he hadn't - it would be a scary future indeed!

"I hate to go and leave this pretty sight"

Not the place for me either.

That said, I'm thankful that there is a place that people can come and speak of their differences .... Freely!

With a predestination inclination like that Dave then why argue the point? I mean, if I interpret you correctly, abortions are the will of God and he will not abort the important Babies!

That said, I believe that Obama (and Clinton before him) did the right thing. I am glad he did it quickly and without much fanfare! You can't pick and choose morality or tie it to political agenda's!

(oh, I know I might seem hard and cold with abortion clinics in Nazareth but isn't part of the fairy tale a post partum attempted abortion (Slaughter of the Innocents)... The point is, that to non believers like myself, who Obama said are acceptable American Citizens in his speech the other day, it is all just fairy tales)

I agree that the limitations should be put on sexually transmitted diseases and AIDS and plagues. I also agree with the Wiz that it would've been scary if Jesus hadn't come. in church yesterday some of the stuff the preacher said reminded me of this thread here. He likes Arlo too...