Done.

as a country we've been spending alot of time and energy....with good reason... talking about what we don't want and what we want stopped....that
we sometimes lose sight of talking about what we want to build...our vision...

this has been circling around my head as an incomplete something but discussions like these pull stuff together....the term "progressive" as many describe ourselves is beginning to wear thin for me... although it stands for alot of values that I support.... the actuality of it is way different....

....working alot for move on....the closest but not right on group that represents how i've been seeing things....i talk with folks all around the country at various times who also id themselves as progressives.... and they have a kind of restlessness with what's been available that is pretty much the same old story as described above....

...even though we're not likely to see a huge shift in how our country runs in "this book" ... i'm guessing that these kinds of changes can come over time.... if we stay interested, talking, disagreeing and sharing ideas about different parties and different potential leaders....

so maybe this discussion is only temporarily moot ...

adg, et al (not the goose), you're not alone! On the drive to work this morning I saw a hand made sign that simply said "Google Ron Paul". ( on the other side, it didn't say nuthin')

Shel's got my vote on this one.

This was a pretty lively discussion! I appreciate the info everyone's listed. Hilary scares the heck out of me! Always has.

Well, gotta go. have a good one everybody!

A bit late to comment here but

I have often described myself as one who is libertarian in view but scared by libertarians. I am all for personal freedoms and I agree with many of the basic libertarian rhetoric (as others have stated in this thread). However, personal encounters with some libertarians have been scary at times (the everybody arm themselves then cut social programs off completely then let the survivors sort it out is a bit much for me!). I am leery of those who say they really speak for the founding fathers (which group hasn't said that) although I agree the libertarian rhetoric comes closest (although I think the founding fathers didn't intend to set everything in stone). Ron Paul seems pretty typical of the bunch to me (nothing real special). Being a Fundamentalist Atheist (I wear my scarlet letter proudly) I disagree with his semi tough stand with religion (the one thing the majority of libertarians still cling too). I want the special status of religion removed myself and I don't especially want to hear the superstitious chanting in schools or government places and I don't think there should be special tax privileges’ either...just me

Look who Arlo's endorsing for prez:

http://www.centredaily.com/business/story/365339.html

I totally agree.

....there's alot about Ron Paul that sounds great for me, too... even though i'm not an atheist... i don't believe that religion should be involved with government or public places at all... it's a private thing and not to be pushed on to folks who don't choose it....

.... i read alot about Ron Paul after this thread.... i do respect what Arlo and Jackie believe... there were some ideas of Paul's that were extraordinarily interesting...especially his foreign policy....and keeping government small and out of folk's business... absolutely.... but

...building a fence all around the country to solve the immigration issue?... nope... or letting low income folks go to survival of the fittest... depending on charity of those who are no longer taxed, not angry and therefore willing to help out... a terrifying non-solution to a struggling low income person like me....(and there are alot more of us now after this administration).... not that there are great answers out there now.... but at least i'm surviving...
so i had to part ways with Ron Paul's candidacy...

it's my opinion only that the Constitution was signed a long time ago... by some wise men who knew all would not remain the same.... and left alot of negotiating room for our society to grow... the fundamentals don't change... the Consitution is inclusive, not exclusive... and it is our job as modern patriots to decide how to help our fundamental beliefs remain true and adapt to this new age....

now that Edwards has bowed out, Ron Paul could take on a new status in the election... i say don't rely on what i say or anyone else... just be sure and read everything about him on his websites.... he certainly is willing to be very specific.... which i respect..

i agree with that idea.
(and yet) i want to say that i learn a lot from listening to you folks here

just so you know

No one who is all things to all people is usually worth anything to anyone. So, there's a lot to disagree about with anyone, including Ron Paul. However, sometimes I think he gets a bum rap when people confuse his stand on a federal policy as opposed to a policy in general.

His idea is to remove a whole host of federal government programs, not because they're bad, but because they have no business being federal. Taking care of people, who can marry who, who gets medical care, what they teach in schools, what drugs are and what's legal, etc. are just a few of the issues/programs that I believe are better entrusted to local and state governments, rather than at the federal level, especially if they have more resources to do so.

The fence, on the other hand is a legitimate issue which also goes to show that at times, Dr. Paul sees a use for a federal response to some problems.

In the long run, I don't expect that I will have a chance to vote for Ron for president. In which case, I hope I will be able to vote for Barak.

adg

I hope that ALL of us can vote for someone we're happy about voting for this year. That alone would be quite a victory.

ditto what Shel said.
I was telling some folks about how great it is that Blunderites respect each others views even if we have different ones about some things.
I rarely visit any other boards, and I'm glad I have here to come back to. There are some nasty things being said elsewhere and I was very surprised and I guess shocked I hadn't expected that kind of behaviour on the particular site I went to.

I hope the Unions make a huge comeback. They can take care of health care, pensions, some unemployment, and some education, which makes them the smaller govt the People will always need.
Sad that Ray-gun was the only card carrying Union President we ever had.

There's always write in votes isn't there? Maybe we don't have that any more...

What would happen if everybody decided that they liked some candidate that didn't get chosen by their party, and everybody decided to write in that candidates name on the ballot?