Oo, la, la!

I don't disagree with the things you say here and the oversea arms sales are certainly an issue for debate (Apparently America can still make damn good jet fighters and attack helicopters...if nothing else) but I do think you mis-characterize the Libertarians. They do advocate tax reduction in conjunction with real government slashing (this is the difference between them and those other parties). They argue that the government has taken too much responsibility (responsibilities they often claim as unconstitutional). Their argument is that these responsibilities should be privatized.They have not effectively (to my knowledge) communicated a plan that can make this viable. My concern is that this would tend to make civic responsibility diffuse and ineffective and ultimately taxation at multiple levels would have to be implemented to meet the community needs. I find that the average Libertarian rarely discusses this bit. It is not that I disagree with them conceptually as our government is huge but we are a huge country.

Libertarians tend to be apocalyptic as well. They are convinced that the economy and world as we know it is structured on a house of cards. They warn of a new time when gun ownership for the protection of rights and property will be a necessity. They make the argument that we can dismantle the "house of cards" to minimize the turbulence but that it will come as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. They get caught up arguing about how our constitutional rights are being subtly destroyed by some insidious "socialist" machine. (Sounds a bit paranoid to me?) They talk with conservatives and get into a frenzy about the constitution and guns but they rarely agree with them on strategies and ideas. They argue for isolation in economics and geopolitics. Then they would tear away our current government responsibilities leaving only border protection. They absolutely hate Obama primarily because of the health care plan but they offer no viable alternatives. Viable alternative discussions always end up in rehearsed speeches on privatization and free markets mostly gleaned from the conservative theology with about as mush substance as a Beck or a Limbaugh bring to the table. In the end, they insist they offer a new approach (often intermingled with a bit of great awakening style of getting back to the real American Dream). However, they are backing away from Jeffersonian associations (not sure why this has become so popular?)

This is my experience. Is this similar to your experience with libertarians? I am just speaking from observations and not meaning this as an attack on anybody with libertarian orientations. Like I said, I often agree with libertarian philosophies, just not seeing any real pragmatic approaches that are truly "revolutionary" and viable.

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Well said Len.....

Really... It sounds more like a projection of negative connotation and groundless accusation on people who may look at approaches to the future differently than what feels like Len's comfort zone. Reminds me of McCarthyism or perhaps Richard Nixon. But hey, what do I know?

I have been saying that right along. When I am forced, meaning I am at someone elses house and the guy happens to be on the TV, Glen Beck and his damb chalk board reminds me of just that, the beginings of the return to McCarthyism. The only difference is that this time its not the communist but the democrats that are projected to be evil. Instead of the red scare it will be the socialist scare this time around.. History has a way of repeating itself doesn't it. " When will we ever learn"???

..Yes this has been my experience as well. They, meaning Libertarians have some good points as far as fundamentally what they are supposed to be about and stand for. However, my experience has been that they are not open to the opinions from opposing groups. That’s what makes me an Independent voter. I don't affiliate myself with any party, though I do tend to lean one way more than the other. My interest is not in my own interest first but how who I am voting for will represent all poor and rich alike. The Libertarians that I know it seems its all about how government affects them personally and then how government affects everyone else last. But this comment is an impression and not necessarily based on fact.
I will say that we seem to be at a crossroads in this country and I would like to see all parties get together in one room and work things out rationally. This fighting back and forth in both houses of government is hurting the country and not helping it. Maybe this period of time in our history will be known as the "great debate" because that is what is going on. I just wish the dabate wasn't so one sided.

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It is kind of like my opinion on believers in god...I don't care if you do it but if you do it around other people, make sure they are consenting adults.

On Heraclitis, well, I guess he felt that treatment had a better prognosis than praying to ants and eating beetle dung. When you are dying, you are apt to try all kind of crazy things.

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This is getting so weird. And brings us back to my point...Humility, tolerance, and love for one another...

Let's look at this without emotion or masturbation.

"hybrid philosophy that denies the authority of the state"....this must be directed at the libertarian. The libertarians I know don't deny the authority of the state. However, they believe in the concept of a republic and often quote the constitution ad infinitum. It is not the authority they question but the current interpretation of that source of authority.

and denies the authority of the church...obviously directed at the athiest and of course the answer is who gave the church any authority? What is the source of the authority of the church? As an American, I gave up monarchy and all its bull shit a long time ago and I choose not to be yoked by one of their tools, the church. That is why the separation of church and state is so important to me.

Communism without the messy obedience to the state. Got me? Are libertarians communist? I don't think so. Are atheists communists? I don't see any atheists uprisings in the name of communism. This is just a projection of a traditionally (in America anyway) negative label, communism, on people with ideas that Len does not agree with.

So resources are allocated by the fittest to seize and control them. Well this is certainly directed at libertarians I suppose. Libertarians definitely question resource allocations. I question the way resources are allocated as well? The whole phrase at the end "by the fittest to seize and control them" just seems to be paranoia and it is again projecting negativity on the opinions of libertarians or atheists.

No Morals... Is it libertarians or atheists who have no morals. Another groundless projection with negative connotations.

No parenting...I don't know? I certainly do not consider the state or the church as parents of anything. You got me?

These are just my observations of these words and what they mean.

I'm not sure that we as humans can do that.

Oh, Gus! You master of the understatement, you!"