I have been singin' loud for some time and will continue but i must admit I am powerfull confused about what we should do over there? GW has made a horrible mess and I am all for getting out but what??? I listened to the debate on NPR today and one pundit for division of Iraq into natural sections and one for allowing continuing steps toward consolidation and still the drive of so many to hate Western Culture and its members just because we exist and are different, I don't know, I don't know... I remain so powerfull confused!!!!! I was talkin' to them English fellows on the way from the Beer fest and we all basically agreed, we don't know what to do to extricate ourselves and calm down those who hate us so!! What is the plan??? Anybody???

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PSBeaty:

What is the plan??? Anybody???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Therein lies the greatest difficulty! There isn't a plan... there wasn't one when Bush decided to go in... and it's become such a mess it seems we CAN'T just up and leave. This is where we need the GREATEST minds to focus.

But we still have to make a LOT of noise to let the 'powers that be' know that we're onto them, and that we won't take their prevarication and obfuscation any more.

The plan should be just to get the heck outa there.

I know that sounds simplistic (and it is), but how did we get out of Vietnam? After years of unnecessary death, it took Nixon seeing a political advantage to ending the war before the election to make it happen. He came up with the phrase, "Peace with honor," and yanked the troops leaving the country to be overrun in six months and our friends there to be murdered because we left so fast we didn't even bother to take our records that included their names.

The only differences between George McGovern's plan to just pull out of Vietnam and Nixon's were that Nixon had a spin to make it publicly acceptable - - and the additional number of lives Nixon allowed to be taken.

"Peace with honor" consisted of neither peace, nor honor.

Maybe today's spin could be, "No WMDs - oops." It doesn't matter what the announced reasoning is.

The only difference is going to be the amount of time and the number of lives lost before we just get the heck outa there.

I have no misconceptions about peace with honor etc.. There have been so many stupid decisions made in the name of "percieved stability and lasting influence" that have wrecked any realistic dialogue in that part of the world that it leaves me puzzled and confused. Not just short sightedness in the name of stability in the Middle East but in our (the world) plans for the future in terms of energy and economics. Our lasting legacy is that we taught the Saudi's the stabilization game and how to maximize profits from oil allowing us to live in a dream land for 20 years (we resumed driving less efficient cars and postponed resolving energy dependancies and pollution issues as some among us profitted immensely). Now we have conservative ecologists telling us nuclear power and opening Alaska to rampant drilling are our only salvation. And, still the radical contingent of Moslem extremists will be mobilizing hatred against our culture.

SO if we leave Iraq tomorrow (which I would like to think we could do without strange notions of honor and dignity to be maintained and with at least some reasonable hope for improving the stability of that region)

What do we do?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PSBeaty:
What do we do?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about we do what we can? I may have posted this somewhere on the Blunderboards before, but it bears repeating.

On a PBS concert special of the late John Denver, they played little snippets of interviews with him between songs. He said that fans were always asking him what they could do to help the environment. He said you don't have to any great task or deed. It doesn't have to be a great sacrifice. If you do what you can do best, or well, and then get someone else to do a little bit of what they can do, and then get someone else to do what they can, etc., etc. then, eventually, you'll have a whole lot of people working on different aspects of the whole deal and then maybe (as he put it) "we can save the world."

We, (the people), can't do squat as far as instituting government foreign policy, but we sure as hell can make it known that "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!" I'm not doing a lot. Standing on a corner a couple of times a month wavin' a peace flag or sneakin' in "What's So Funny ('Bout Peace, Love & Understanding)" if I'm playing at a bar, or cleaning the paint off a vandalized Peace Pole. But it's something. And since I started going to the vigils in Winsted back in November, I've noticed that there's fewer people screaming "F*** You!" and more people throwing out the peace sign. Like one of my fellow vigilists said, if we can make one or two people think about this goddamned war then it's worth it. Then, maybe they'll get somebody else to think about what's going on, etc., etc. (see! There's those "etc.'s" again!)

Find a website that lists vigils in your part of the world. And then go to one. They're usually about one or two hours long around here and, at the most, once a week. How long do we all spend on these computers every week? A lot more than that, I'll reckon. And not doing a whole hell of a lot other than emailing jokes or just complaining and whining about the state of the world (yep! I'm guilty of all of that and more, myself!). Yeah, like <u>anybody's</u> time is soooo valuable that they cant spend an hour or two a month to stop this freakin' madness!

So, get out there and do something! Even if you don't think that it's a lot. It all adds up. One or two people standing on a corner wavin' peace signs doesn't seem like much, but if they didn't do it then there'd be nobody. And if a few more people join 'em more people will start to take notice. An if you get a whole lot going to 'em, then maybe somebody who can affect government policy will notice as well.

<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>
Captain Zap

I love your passion man!!!!

What else we do is talk. Talk at work. Work it into conversations. Be sure the people we're around know where we stand, but not militantly; more like "working it out together." It was really, really hard right after the invasion of Iraq, but this has given me (1) connection with others who believe the same as I do and (2) converts! I have several, and am still working on a few more who are teetering on the brink. Look at the numbers from the last two elections: if a third, even a fourth, or just a smaller fraction of us each can help one person turn around, ...

If it doesn't come around on the guitar, make it come around on the guitar, so to speak.

I would like to add these lines from a Joan Baez song I first heard shortly after returning to the states from Vietnam

"Like these flowers at your door and scribbled notes about the war
We're only saying the time is short and there is work to do
And we're still marching in the streets with little victories and big defeats
But there is joy and there is hope and there's a place for you"

While checking out Stephen Stills Website (who's got a pretty decent new CD out, by the way), I came across a pretty good quote by him:

"We came out of the sixties with a few really wonderful ideas, and one of them was the sense of community," Stills explains. "I mean, for all that trash that came out of that era as well, the beauty that we came away with was this sense of community. And that just doesn’t permit us to lay back and be uninvolved."

He's still pretty much politically and socially active. So much so that they should name an isotope after the guy.

I think that there's a lot of celebrities and public figures who support peace and want an end to all of this crap, but our wonderful media doesn't want to cover it. Instead, they're all over what Britteny Spiro's wearing or what celebrity's doing what celebrity. The US media has taken the easy way out and, like most of our politicians, is mindless and spineless. Some are waking up, like the Cindy Sheehan story. But few are articles like that.

If something out of the ordinary happened, like (just an example, mind you) Merryl Streep or Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward coming out of their Litchfield county, CT homes (I think they still live there) and hanging out at some of these peace vigil thingies, maybe the media might cover more of them and maybe more people might start rallying. Hey, maybe even Keith Richards! He lives around here somewhere, and the Stones just came out with a "not fit for broadcast" anti-Bush tune. .

But, back to Stephen Stills. He's right about that idea of a sense of community. We seem to be loosing it on a daily basis. A friend of mine, who's in a blues band, said that he's noticed fewer people are going out to clubs these days. People are staying home, he said. We're online, we rent DVD's (movie attendance has dropped drastically), we order stuff, including books, clothing, music & even groceries online, we bank online, send correspondence online, we meet people online! Hell, I even know someone whose boyfriend was cheating on her online! Kids aren't even going outside to play anymore! Our real community has been replaced by a virtual one. Don't misunderstand. There's a lot of good, cool stuff happening due to the internet, but there's also got to be a reality check. We're connected to each other and to the universe by far more than wires and modems, keyboards and monitors. Sometimes, ya just gotta get out there and do something for real to make it work.

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Zap

I love you guys,,,,,,you give me hope and make me feel less alone. But like Shel said, I too put out feelers, and am finding more people who, when they know how I feel, open up and verbalize their anger over all this and this gives me hope too.

I mean,

Once Iraq has settled (I believe we are on the verge and I hope it settles easy),
What do we do to make a positive world!! A world where we don't just throw money at Africa to help people exist. A world that deals with Mexico and Central America and Asia and Siberia and the streets of Baltimore and Philly etc, etc....What do I say to people at work to make positive strides toward eliminating the reasons for human beings to believe that suicide terror is a rational approach to dealing with the future!!! How can we get Muslims, Jews Christians and whatever I might be called to not just subsist in fear of each other but actually live together!!!

I mean where I am coming from is that during my short visit to this planet I have seen wars and conflicts and genocides come and go without any real progress towards that utopian future, the ultimate triumph of the human race: a peaceful, energy balanced world community free of poverty and suffering. (I know I am a dreamer).
But the ways of the world are turning against that grain, the people I talk to talk of individual liberty in the form of Laisssee Faire Capitalism and not only restricted limits but the abolition of social responsibility.

I mean look at Haliburton. Is that where America's investment in the future lies? The arguement is that we can't realistically change the world because we don't know how that will affect are investments in our future as we know them today! Americans all and Western culture in general is dependent on the value of our houses remaining stable and the balances in our retirement accounts remaining stable and etc etc etc.

Do we just defend our past and pray some supernatural being sorts it all out justly or do we try, as a planet-beyond national or block boundaries,to plan our future and manage our resources?

Just rambling endlessly, sorry!!!!See what your peace vigil and call for participation did!! It made me ramble endlessly.

PSB, your rambles are good rambles to me; they make me think (and then ramble myself, sometimes). I get bummed out and depressed (ask Jay!) about the insanities, but I try to remember that probably the good for us lies in the trying; in making the effort. I also think I've seen a lot of stupidity and backward social movement in my 55 years, but imagine what Pete could say about what he's seen in his lifetime ... Wow! Hearing his Waist-Deep in the Big Muddy album in a high-school senior class (enlightened teacher!) was my introduction to the idea that we need to be aware of what goes on, and then we need to fight to make things better. But who in this world seems more cheerful; who has a more beautiful smile than Pete's? I'm sure he's personally seen and known about more awful things than I ever will. He fights the evil without ever stopping, but he also seems to live life to the fullest and somehow has never gotten bitter, but is full of love. I'm not preaching to anyone but myself. I got off on this tangent because of your 'ramble' and I thank you. Maybe it will help me "see" Pete's beautiful smile when I get down about it all. "Take it easy, but take it."

To quote Led Zep, "Ramble on", PS. You've got a good ramble and, besides, that means yer thinkin'! And yes, there's lots of crap being flung around from all sides, in all directions. Always has been, always will be. Just the amount of flying crap varies from time to time. Right now we are in an era of tremendous flyin' crap, so much so that you can only ignore it for so long before the stink starts to get to you.

And, nope, no cosmic bearded wahzoo is gonna swoop down and mop it all up. We are the cosmic wahzoos and it's our crap and we're the ones who have to clean it up! Is it ever gonna end? Nope! That's why we gotta do something!

You can just say, "Screw it!" and give up because it just keeps happenin' again and again, but that ain't gonna make it go away or make things get better. Like Shel said, look at Pete! Pete's like a danged superhero without the spandex! Seen lots worse than most of us and he just keeps on fightin' the good fight! And he's smart enough to know that it ain't ever over but that things go in cycles.
"To everything turn, turn, turn
There is a season turn, turn, turn"
Damn, he's good, ain't he? Screw the spandex! Somebody should make a superhero movie about him!

A lawyer friend of my sister-in-law and I one time got into a discussion about "justice". She said that she had learned that justice is a myth in her second year of law school and that it was "sad" that I believed in the myth of justice. A lawyer said that! I told her that it was even sadder that she didn't believe in it because a myth, even if it's unattainable (as most myths are), gives you something to ever strive for. And that can make you a better person for it and just might make the world a little better of a place for your striving. Peace? Justice? Equality? They're all myths! But people striving for them, and sometimes even dying for them, has made the world a better place!

We may be old, PS, be we aren't dead yet (hell, I'm only 53!)! If the young-uns ain't doin' anything, then I reckon it's up to us. Heck! We've got an eighty-plus year old woman attending some of the vigils! Feisty old girl, too!

So, here I am a ramblin' as well. But if our ramblin's here make even one person start to thinkin', then it's a ramble worth taking!

<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>
Captain Zap

I remember I was taught blowin in the the wind as a folk song in grade school (along with Commanche, and 500 miles and erie canal and that thing about a time to everything). The funny thing was that summer before that year I was missinging Like A Rolling Stone often (Just Like Cleon Jones (I would howl), like a rolling stone, now who can figure that reference from summer '65) and never connected the two songs as being by the same person.

Little boys are strange, they have magic in their pockets!