In today's Times Union:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Feds kept tabs on UAlbany anti-war events
School president, students alarmed after finding protests on Department of Defense watch list

By KENNETH AARON, Staff writer
First published: Friday, December 16, 2005

ALBANY -- How menacing are the University at Albany's Campus Action and Campus Greens chapters?
Menacing enough that the Department of Defense included a pair of protests by the groups on a database of potential threats earlier this year.

The list, posted this week on MSNBC's Web site, showed that the Pentagon ultimately deemed the on-campus protests last spring against military recruiters to be less than threatening.

But the notion of the government spying on peace activists alarmed the students, UAlbany President Kermit Hall and free-speech advocates alike.

"It's threatening democratic rights," said Ben O'Shaughnessy, a sophomore from Red Hook who heads the Campus Action group. "We're peaceful citizens taking part in the democratic process."

O'Shaughnessy and two cohorts who talked about the database revelation Thursday hardly looked like revolutionaries: They favored cargo pants and sneakers.

"We're just a general, nonpartisan, nonaffiliated social justice group," O'Shaughnessy said.

The list obtained by NBC News showed the Department of Defense kept tabs on almost 50 anti-war events from November 2004 through May. The March 2 event at UAlbany was small, attended by about a dozen people; the one on April 21 involved more than 100.

It is not clear whether the Department of Defense conducted live surveillance of either of the UAlbany events on the list, or if they dispensed with the threat from afar. The department did not return requests for comment.

The campus groups noted, though, that they never publicized the first protest outside of their own circle -- and wondered how the government caught wind of it. "I'm going to be more careful with my e-mail," said Rob Attardo, a junior in the Campus Greens.

UAlbany's president was also unsure what, if anything, the Department of Defense was doing on campus. Hall said he asked University Police Department Chief Frank Wiley to ask the federal agency about the extent of its activities. Hall said the government's surveillance on campus was an "insidious form of Big Brother operations" and smacked of efforts in the 1960s and 1970s to keep track of civil rights leaders and war protesters.

"I very much respect the need to take account of the security of the nation," he said. "I am, however, taken aback and puzzled by the purported or alleged involvement of Department of Defense surveillance people on our campus without first notifying us of their presence and then, second, having to find out about that presence through the media."

Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, D.C., criticized the government for keeping tabs on anti-war activists.

"These are the actions of a police state," he said. U.S. officials don't have any right to decry the conduct of other governments that monitor their citizens' political activity when they're doing the same thing themselves, he added.

O'Shaughnessy, Attardo and Matt Davidson of the Greens had no plans to change their activity, and they took getting on the list as something of a badge of honor.

"It means we're doing something right," Davidson said.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
... maybe a touch of 'paranoia' isn't so crazy after all.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Wyldflower on Dec 16, 2005 ---</FONT></center>

FYI... if you go to MSNBC, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/ , there's a link to a list of groups the DoD had been watching. I'm sure there are likely to be others, as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wyldflower:

FYI... if you go to MSNBC, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/ , there's a link to a list of groups the DoD had been watching. I'm sure there are likely to be others, as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dang! Winsted, CT wasn't on it! Guess we're just small potatoes! I was hopin' that they might have some good photos of me that I could use for promotional material!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captain Zap:

Dang! Winsted, CT wasn't on it! Guess we're just small potatoes! I was hopin' that they might have some good photos of me that I could use for promotional material!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure the DoD was primarily looking at protests aimed at military recruiting offices and outreach activities... so fear not, you're probably on the FBI list, rather than the DoD list!

.. but it's most frightening that the DEPT of DEFENSE feels it is within their purview to do surveillance on American citizens, who are simply exercising their right to free speech.

And then there are the revelations about NSA doing similar surveillance... Big Brother certainly IS watching!

(thank goodness for small miracles... the Patriot Act has NOT been extended, though the legislature COULD still extend it...)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wyldflower:

I'm pretty sure the DoD was primarily looking at protests aimed at military recruiting offices and outreach activities... so fear not, you're probably on the FBI list, rather than the DoD list!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of our little group's main things is to make students and parents aware of the "No Child Left Behind" provision to release personal student data to recruiters. So, it does surprise me not to see it there. Like I said, small potatoes.

But I do believe that the FBI has much more experience with taking photos than the DoD, so, hey! Maybe they've got some good pics. Wonder if they'll share? Think it's covered under the FoI Act?

I can hear it now.... FBI bureau chief says to his agents: "Mulder! Scully! I want you to go to Winsted, CT and surveil a bunch of old geezers waving signs and peace flags! Oh, and take some pictures! And don't forget the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was to be used as evidence against them!" And people tell me that I've got too much spare time!

Ya think they'd be more concerned about terrorists that a bunch of innocent peace loving hippies... <img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cheryl Harrell:

Ya think they'd be more concerned about terrorists that a bunch of innocent peace loving hippies... <img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

... exactly! Although, I guess a bunch of people carryin' signs and singin' songs is a form of terrorism... at least in the eyes of this administration!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cheryl Harrell:

Ya think they'd be more concerned about terrorists that a bunch of innocent peace loving hippies... <img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Innocent? Hey, now! I've had relations....you know...with women! "Nudge, nudge! Wink, wink! Know what I mean?"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captain Zap:

Innocent? Hey, now! I've had relations....you know...with women! "Nudge, nudge! Wink, wink! Know what I mean?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

... does your wife know this, Zap?
heehee!!!

damn, the DOD is too soft, set up machine guns and club then all over the head, god bless the mayor of chicago in 1968 for he knew how to handle you pinko hippie types.
George Bush is like a leader of the free world, who are we to question his wisdom?

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Nathen on Dec 17, 2005 ---</FONT></center>

Now I got a kid, a wife and a home
and there is a tap on my phone
Hey undercover man leave me alone
When I go to work your hot on my trail
Taking pictures of my friends to throw us in jail
Hey undercover man leave me alone

THis ones constitutional, you can get dismissed from service for constitutional ones! And I am personally shocked that GW has shown such a blatant disregard for civil liberties even in times that redefine the foundations of American Patriotism in the name of Fear and Loathing! THis makes our little regional dispute (the last Senate race in beatiful PA involving a Brown Shirt Putsch) over the magic bullet man, Senor Spector, and his percieved lack of vital fluids when it comes to true conservative values all the more interesting, why he did make chair of the Justice Committee, Will he take our boy GW to task? Will GW be able to shrug it off on a subordinate? Will the subordinate designated for a fall be colorful, patriotically crazed and eventually end up as a northern Virginia Right wing pundit (ala Ollie or G Gordon)? All we can do is, WAIT FOR THE FUTURE!!!!

I dunno.....maybe they are there at the colleges just to see what the smart people are thinking? Maybe they have hopes that some of the smart will rub off on them?
I can't really imagine that they are there to keep an eye on people exercising such un-American activities like free speech, thinking for themselves,bringing attention to failed leadership and failed policies.
Somewhat on the same theme, I've been thinking with all the goverment policies about product labels these days, perhaps the government should lable laws and programs and such for what they really are. For example, the "Patriot Act" might better be lableled "The we at the highest levels of government are so incompetent and since the enemy is smarter then we are we need to create a police state and rob freedoms and privacy for our citizens so maybe we might be able to appear to do our jobs better so we might get us and our parties candidates re-elected act". I mean ,it may be a start?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wyldflower:

... does your wife know this, Zap?
heehee!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Stop tryin' to get me in trouble! I'm talkin' pre-marriage (or pre-marital)here! I'll have you know that I'm quite full of fidelity (and a few other things I won't get into here!). And heck, she's one of the pre's but the only post! So, she should know! "Nudge, nudge! Wink, wink!" (Monty Python quote...."Know what I mean?").

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captain Zap:

... I'll have you know that I'm quite full of fidelity ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

... which reminds me of a christmas carol:

A dusty fiddle is joyful and tri-umpet!