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Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
http://www.arlo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13085		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  timhunter [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
I am trying to get a definitive understanding of the use and derivation of the word "massacree" as in "Alice's Restaurant Massacree"

thanks

tim
info@timhuntermusic.com
Author:  Larry [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
timhunter wrote:
I am trying to get a definitive understanding of the use and derivation of the word "massacree" as in "Alice's Restaurant Massacree"

thanks

tim
info@timhuntermusic.com


Well, it would seem to be a sarcastic(yet accurate)representation of the events that led to the author being deemed unfit for military service.
An overblown minor legal entanglement( sardonically referred to as a massacree) that led to the author being excused from perhaps participating in a real massacree.
Hints of sarcasm, pathos, a sardonic flair all overseasoned with truth and accuracy.( Does this sound like a wine review?) :)

Now of course, Arlo might have something else to say about it.
Author:  DRR [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Welcome Tim,

Ha, I always find it funny when someone asks what a song means. But a word usage and derivation, wow thats awsome.

I remember going through this exercise for Stairway To Heaven and Lily, Rosemary And The Jack Of Hearts, among others in my youth. Back then, we had no computers in which to dig for reference. We would play the record and discuss what we felt it meant. Ha.

I'm no expert, but I do know sometimes there may be a meaning and sometimes it just fits or rhymes. Also, some artists prefer the listener to develop their own meaning, so the song becomes personal and different for each listener. Good luck in your search.

From the lyrics tab at left side of screen -
Alice's Restaurant
By Arlo Guthrie

147th verse..."the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement"...

From Dictionary.com-http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Massacre

mas⋅sa⋅cre   /ˈmæsəkər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mas-uh-ker] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, -cred, -cring.
–noun 1. the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings or animals, as in barbarous warfare or persecution or for revenge or plunder.
2. a general slaughter, as of persons or animals: the massacre of millions during the war.
3. Informal. a crushing defeat, esp. in sports.
–verb (used with object) 4. to kill unnecessarily and indiscriminately, esp. a large number of persons.
5. Informal. to defeat decisively, esp. in sports.

Origin:
1575–85; (n.) < MF massacre, n. deriv. of massacrer, OF maçacrer, macecler, prob. < VL *matteūcculāre, v. deriv. of *matteūca mallet (see mashie, mace 1 ); (v.) < MF massacrer
Author:  Don Coyote [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
You'se theenking too hard. :roll:
Author:  Larry [ Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
that would explain the headache.....
Author:  Cheryl Harrell [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymo
Welcome to the site! Hopefully the folksinger will come on here & ad his input. If he's not too busy playing Santa Clause lol... :)
Author:  nortonkevin [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Maybe we're over-thinking this one folks. Maybe it's as simple as massacre (mass-a-cree) is just the way Arlo and Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies choose to pronounce massacre (mass-a-ker)...???.....for colloquial effect.....
Author:  Wyldflower [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
nortonkevin wrote:
Maybe we're over-thinking this one folks. Maybe it's as simple as massacre (mass-a-cree) is just the way Arlo and Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies choose to pronounce massacre (mass-a-ker)...???

Pre-zactly! ... and since it's actually the "Anti-Massacree Movement"... it's simply "We don't believe in wars and killing people"
Author:  Larry [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Of course in answer to the original question here I was trying to explain my take more on the use of the word than perhaps the derivation.
Oddly enough, many of us have heard Arlo mention that they have been studying the lyrics to " The Motorcycle Song" at colleges and universities all over the country, but we have heard no such claim about "Alice's Restaurant". As Arlo has also noted in the past......." No wonder we're in trouble!". :)

I mean " Alice's Restaurant" is an onion wheras " The Motorcycle Song" is a cookie.......or perhaps maybe a brownie. Ommmmmmmm......... :wink: :D
Author:  nortonkevin [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Yep! Wild's the one around here with the sixth grade ed-joo-kay-shun!!! For being so smart, you win the deluxe spa package down to the cee-ment pond!!!
Author:  timhunter [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymo
I found this in one online post:

It's the OzEng label for an event so wildly and improbably and baroquely messed up that the results are almost impossible to believe. It can be used for something as trivial as a child's blunder or a school play that takes an unexpected turn. It can be used for something relatively serious, even something at once hilarious and pathetic and potentially tragic -- like the Presidential "Debate" the other night...

Perhaps this is part of it
Author:  timhunter [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymo
OzEng (Ozark English)
Author:  Larry [ Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Huh??? :? :)

By the way, what kind of weapons does a Tim Hunter use and when is the hunting season? And why on earth would you care to hunt Tims in the first place?
Author:  1purpledragon [ Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Larry wrote:
Huh??? :? :)

By the way, what kind of weapons does a Tim Hunter use and when is the hunting season? And why on earth would you care to hunt Tims in the first place?

I was wondering that myself LOL
Author:  Parvati1 [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Massacree-Anyone up on the derivation or etymology
Woody Guthrie wrote a song called the 1913 Massacree, about a tragedy in Michigan where copper miners and their children died because of the "copper boss thug men" - I think Arlo's just honoring his dad by using that spelling
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