What - the - hell - ???? Anybody know anything about this?

http://www.nicfa.com/

FDA Agents Invade Amish Farm in PA


Kinzers, PA - At 9:40 a.m. last Thursday, February 4, only a few miles from the scene of the Nickel Mines Amish massacre of 2006, another drama against the Amish began as agents of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) came onto the property of Amish farmer Dan Allgyer, without permission, claiming to be conducting an investigation. Agents Joshua Schafer and Deborah Haney, from the Delaware FDA office, drove past Allgyer's "No Trespassing" signs and up his driveway almost to his barn, where Allgyer happened to be outside. Allgyer approached the car, the agents got out and Allgyer asked them why they were there. They produced a piece of paper, asked Allgyer if he was Dan Allgyer, which Allgyer confirmed, asked him his middle initial and phone number, entered the information on the paper, told Allgyer they were there to do an inspection and started reading the paper to him, saying it gave them jurisdiction to be there.

The agents - Schafer did most of the talking - said they had a right to be there because "you produce food for human consumption." Dan asked why they believed that and they said, "Well, you have cows. You cannot be consuming all the milk you produce." They further stated, "If you get a milk truck in to move all this milk you sell milk to the public, therefore we have jurisdiction."

Dan said, "This is a private farm, I do not sell anything to the public."

As they continued to harass him about doing an inspection, Allgyer said, "You can sit in your car. I will call my lawyer." The agents remained standing.

Allgyer called his attorney who advised him to have the agents call him. When Allgyer told them to call his attorney Schafer replied, "You are the owner and you have to speak for yourself."

They pressed him to talk and Schafer asked, "Are you refusing us an investigation? Allgyer replied, "That's not what I'm saying." They kept repeating, "Are you refusing an investigation?"

Allgyer kept saying, "Call this guy" - meaning his attorney.

Allgyer said they must have asked him six times.

One of them said, "Even if you do not say so, you are still refusing an investigation."

Eventually Schafer said, "If you refuse an investigation will you answer some questions?"

Allgyer said, "I'd rather not."

When the agents continued to push him Dan said, "Is that a question?

Sheepishly, they said. 'Yes."

Allgyer said, "What did I say about questions?'

They replied, "Well we're going to write this up as a refusal to have an investigation and give it to our higher officials."

Dan felt they were threatening him at this point.

After that, they got in their car, drove out the driveway and parked on the neighbor's property watching Allgyer. A visitor, Ivan, who had been on the farm, though not part of the conversation, left in his truck soon after, and the FDA agents proceeded to follow him in their car, even when he stopped at a convenience store to use the facilities. After forty or fifty miles, Ivan called 911 and told the police he was being followed.

The state police - in two cruisers - pulled the agents over. Ivan pulled over as well.

Ivan said the police told him that the agents explained they were FDA agents and they had the right to follow him because they were conducting an investigation on the farm he left. They thought he had product and they wanted samples of the product.

Ivan responded by opening the back of the truck and revealing it was empty. The agents photographed the inside of the empty truck and gave Ivan a paper, claiming they had a right to inspect his truck. He told them they were harassing him. The state trooper said they had a right to follow and pull him over but they were in an unmarked car so Ivan would not have had to pull over.

As with Allgyer, the agents asked Ivan some information which they wrote on the paper they produced, then handed it to him.

Ivan asked them, "Why are you writing up a paper on me when you have no cause?"

They said, "We have a cause, because you left the farm."

They claimed he had a load off the farm and they wanted samples.

Ivan said, "I didn't know who you were."

An agent replied, "You saw us at the farm."

Ivan said. "That doesn't make any difference, I didn't know who you were."

Ivan pointed out that he was at the farm but did not hear what they said. He was twenty feet or more away from them and was not involved in their conversation.

Ivan said the police told him they would record that the agents had been following him.

A spokeswoman for the FDA (reached at the phone number on the paper the FDA agents gave to Allgyer) said the FDA has no comment at this time because it is an ongoing investigation.

Dan Allgyer will meet with his county sheriff in the near future to apprise him of this incident.

We will update this story as needed.

Yours for food freedom,
Deborah Stockton, Executive Director
National Independent Consumers and Farmers Association (NICFA)
www.NICFA.org
nicfa@earthlink.net

What can you say about something this bizzare except, "Are we paying these guys' salaries?" Sounds like the bumbling secret agent that was following Arlo around in "The Pause of Mr. Clause"

That's bad they are harassing the Amish. And yet terrorists can blow up stuff and escape being caught. Sad...

OK, not ready to totally take the other side of this argument because I don't know all the facts, BUT if we want safe food and drugs, we need to put up with some inconvenience, etc. Why couldn't this guy just cooperate with the investigators instead of acting all "get off of my land"? I think the Amish have a long history of being anti-government regulation, etc., claiming they are exempt due to their religious beliefs.
Ever get behind one of their horse-drawn wagons in PA Dutch country?


mikey

Seems like the FDA should have gotten a warrant (or some such) if they wanted to inspect the farm. Doesn't the farmer have a right to know what they are investigating him for and why?

These farmers know full well what the FDA is looking for; they're selling raw milk and milk products, which is against the law. Here's some more background:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/bro ... rrest.html

I don't know about you, but I want the FDA to insure our food supply is safe.


mikey

I don't think I ever saw it in a manual, but we were always taught that you are always allowed to pass a buggy even if it's a no passing zone.

Farmer Allgyer seems like one savvy dude tho. Seems he knew exactly how to talk to the agents (why were they from Delaware?) and even has his lawyer on speed dial. I didn't know the Amish even used cell phones.

Ah, I see what you mean Mikey. Looks like there are quite a few people who want it though.

I particularly like the part where the farmer says something like, and they swooped in like a bunch of Vikings! That's really funny. I'm picturing a bunch of people with pointy metal helmets, spears and armor... too funny.

I also like the picture of an Amish farmer riding in his buggy with his cell phone up to his ear. too funny.

I was reading this last night, kinda wondering about the story. Part rings true to me, part not -- other than the original article and a bunch of blogs that repeat the original article, there's not a lot of info out there. One thing does appear clear, though -- the article says it was a "non-commercial" farm (implying it was just he wasn't selling anything), but he does appear to be commercial, albeit small-scale:

http://www.eatwellguide.org/listing/detail/28689

I don't have much difficulty believing that the FDA, like any other agency, has agents who overreach, but the stuff about them following the guy who left the farm sounds really strange; I'm not sure I buy it. In any case, the FDA may have been looking for raw milk or they may have been looking at drug use (antibiotics) -- I have mixed feelings about the former -- I think people who buy raw milk from Allgyer likely know what they are getting and have weighed the possible risks for themselves; it's not where I would put my enforcement priority -- but note that these types of investigations started in 2007 under the Bushies; they're not recent. If they were looking for antibiotic use, that's another story -- he says he's not using drugs on his cows, but people do lie about that and that's an area where I would like to see them enforce. Not quite so obnoxiously, though, and good for him for standing up for his rights (assuming the bulk of the story is true).

They were probably from Delaware because the FDA's Wilmington office actually is closer to his farm than their Philadelphia office. Federal agencies generally don't focus on just one state -- if they have authority to inspect (which generally depends on whether the goods he sells enter "interstate commerce" (meaning they leave PA, which they likely do since the website says he'll ship)), then they can go anywhere in the country. I don't know if they have to have a warrant -- I hope so, but food law is a weird area of law.

The Amish have also turned farms that weren't quite making it as a commercial farm/dairy into very profitable puppymills....and the dogs are treated like a commodity, not a feeling/thinking being. All those pet stores that are selling puppies from "USDA Breeders" means they're puppy mill dogs, and may well have come from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, or from Branson, MO, the place with the most puppymills in the USA (not Amish). Most of these are filthy hellholes for the dogs, and most of the puppies have had no socialization with people. Little attention is paid to pedigrees or health, and they've jumped on the "designer dog" bandwagon. Yorkie or poodle mixes? Yeah, they're breeding them. Every pet store sale encourages them to just breed more...so don''t buy a puppy from a pet store.

A lot of people think that if they get a healthy puppy from a pet store then there's no problem. Often the puppies don't have any physical or emotional scars but their poor mothers are still living in the deplorable filth that fate has brought them.

We actually bought our old dog from an Amish farm. But when we went there his mother, tho covered in mud, was having the time of her life playing with the kids. And she was their only dog.

i have never not once in my life sought out a pet...they just showed up!

I'm with agnes on this one; I am a "cat person", and they do tend to seek me out and find me. Only have three right now.


mikey

Wow on the puppy mills. I learn something new and disgusting every day, though it doesn't usually involve the Amish.

We have a couple of places that keep the puppy mills in business here...there's a "just puppies" and another kennel (with "Potomac" in the name) that only has puppies. Plus the various pet stores. You'd think all the yuppie tree huggers around here would know better than to buy from these places.

We've gotten some of our cats from the pound, one we presently have was rescued (by our daughter) as a starving 5 week old from a litter in someone's back yard, and the other one we have was from a cat rescue; he was from a feral litter. We've only got two cats...the dog was from a reputable dog breeder that knew what she was doing...and she chose which puppy we got, as the best fit for our family. She was right!