I think by definition a Hippie (or Blunderite) religion would be disorganized. It sounds good--"I'm a member of Disorganized Religion." That's what I'll say the next time I'm asked.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ceashel:

I think by definition a Hippie (or Blunderite) religion would be disorganized. It sounds good--"I'm a member of Disorganized Religion." That's what I'll say the next time I'm asked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I get an "AMEN!?!"

AMEN!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcj:

Deb, i call myself a recovering Catholic too! All of sudden I just saw through it. I realized that not only did I not need to be in "the club" to find god, but that it was actually detrimental to finding truth.


Pat, HOW WAS ARLO??? Did you get to hear any rare stuff that he doesn't usually play??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never got to be a recovering Catholic, because my mother recovered in the 40's when she was in college so by the time I came along the family was on their own spiritual search, which continues to this day. We've been a lot of things as a group. I'm satisified to show up in a church up in the Berks once or twice a year.

lcj, Arlo was great as always. No, don't think there was any rare stuff played, though.

yes in all the controversy on the Priest! It does give me the willie's. BUT I couldn't help but think of ALL the good priest that I had met, in my early life.

*Priest are like therapist. For every good one, there are 3 or 4 shitty ones. You wouldn't want a shitty therapist, trust me!

**I have great memorie's of CYO. I was just fortunate to have a good priest. One hell of a guy...Father Phillup Allen. I was lucky enough to get him to come down from the Adarondacks, to do my wedding! I sort of will never forget that guy. Meetings consisted of 'Bob Dylan', Beatles music, and just one hell of a good advice giver. A great, great man. 6 packs weren't 'out' of the question. And he let us smoke. Ironically 25 yrs. ago it was sapposed to be good for your health!?

**I can remember the ones before Allen tho, and some pretty wierd dudes!!! To say the least...

I'm sure that most priests are good people and never touch anyone in a "not OK way", as my son says..recalling the directions they got in school as to what to do if an adult molested any of the kids. But I sure do think that a celibate priesthood would be sure to attract some more sexually troubled people than most fields of endeavor.

An Amen and an Hallelujah!!!


I've never been to The Guthrie Center Church - could someone share what that's like?

I usually just ignore this kind of thread, but after having been computerless for a month i started reading everything. Icj, the best anyone can say to you is "I'm praying for you". You are just such an angry man, I truly hope you find peace some day.
My own feelings about the current priest scandal is that the Church is more than just the people on earth at the moment. It is absulutely sickening and disgusting that Cardinal Law in particular doesn't resign. But it's more like having the pedophile in your family. It's embarrassing,outraging etc. but it's still your family. Disowning yourself from it isn't going to help anything.

Dianne, great to see you posting again!!! & God getting a little (much deserved) air-time...<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif" width=15 height=15>

**Anna, on the Guthrie Center Church. It's best described on the front page. (there are so many port-holes on this site, maybe someone else will steer you there!?) But if I remember right, it's the part (and I'd guess Arlo wrote this piece). "just leave your substance's outside the door. We'll give them back when you leave"...

Meaning for me personnally??? My first experience wasn't that compelling. (like waiting months for a movie (or book) to come out. If you wait too long, it 'can be' a dissapointment. But I found out, the dissapointment lay in me. NOT THE CHURCH!!!
My spiritual journey, had 'only' just begun. Things don't happen overnite. Always. I wanna say 2 yrs. went slowly by. The summer series had me heading back to the church. Xavier was playin. Nuthin could stop me!! The visit prior to the concert overwhelmed me! Not to mention, there was Abe. In a rush, and quickly out the door. George (great guy) was there. We talked, and more or less shared story's. It was sorta hard to leave. But I needed rest. Xavier was no dissapointment...(in 'my' top 10 list of shows).

I really couldn't call it a religious experience, till a month later. Seeing (hearing) arlo do Amazing Grace, and song's like 'Goodnite Irene'. I got caught up in my camera. But it was futile. My ears were glued. I left Mass. with the best Blunderbuzz (for lack of a better term) I ever had! To get these photo's back a wk later. Pic's of grown men crying. Wiping away tears. Well I sure didn't feel alone, getting all choked up, after seeing the pics, and sharing some story's. Nobody seems to have it easy, and it's nice to share. The good with the bad. DON'T get me wrong Anna. Many of those tears were the happy kind. It's when you have a tad of understanding those happy tears, (speaking for myself) you feel one with 'God'(For lack of a better term).....<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif" width=15 height=15>

i don't know diane, i think a few people walking out on the church might help them. might make them begin, in some small way, to realize that people aren't going to tolerate their corruption anymore. i could see the hypocrisy when i left and that was decades before all this surfaced. i think back to how many times as a kid i was scared of going to hell (thanks to the lectures from the altar) for my 8 yo "sins" and i look now at the lying, the cover up, the putting more and more children at risk of horrors just to protect the image of the church and i'm outraged...it goes beyond simple hypocrisy, it's unbelievable corruption of power and a few men with monumental egos. seems to me that "the powers that be" in the church should be spending their days thinking less about the sins of the congregation and a lot more thinking about their own, because my guess is God isn't pleased.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by deb on May 07, 2002 ---</FONT></center>

Diane, several things regarding your last post.

"angry man" Yeah, guilty as charged. Actually, most of the time I'm not, but there is plenty out there in our world that does piss me off. To me, the challenge is to find a positive way to channel that anger back to change what pissed me off. Not easy, but I'm workin on it.

"I'll pray for you" Well, if that was really sincere, then I thank you for it. Knowing what prayer means to you, that's a very nice thing to say.

"I usually just ignore this kind of thread"
That's kind of unfortunate. Regardless of your beliefs, keeping an open mind is never a bad thing. Faith can be beautiful, blind faith can be horrific. I hope you find the courage to periodicly question your own beliefs. One of the most important things to me about spirituality, is to first and foremost always admit that I could be wrong. To deny that other ideas are even remotely possible borders on fanaticism. "Ignoring" discussions about religion because others may not agree with you denies a certain part of your spiritual self.

"I hope you find peace someday" Don't we all. I hope I find it too, I hope everyone does. Thanks for the wishes. I have many friends that are aetheists, agnostics, and various religious followers. We get along quite well considering. Yes we have debates, which we usually enjoy, but we still love each other. Because i find aspects of your religion, or religion in general, to be wrong or to be fair game for criticism, doesn't mean that I find all the followers to be bad people. Far from it. I hope you feel the same.

And one more thing about "religion-bashing." Were faith and religion the private things I think they should be, I would not attack it. Were it kept in the home, where such an intimate thing should be, i would respect that privacy. But religion doesn't do that. It pushes itself into everyone's face. It attempts to influence politics. It attempts to control others, in a very public way. And whether you agree with me or not, that public presence opens religion up to criticism from anyone. If it wants to stand up on the soapbox and bellow, then people have the right to bellow back.

Thanks again and peace to you.

My grandfathers left the Catholic chutch, in the 20's, and both my parents were raised, as Protestants, though not attatched to any denomination. Many of my closest friends, growing up, were Catholic, and I was fascinated with the ceremony & "rituals" they described.
That so many priests would violate their vows of celibacy, and betray the implicit trust of children and their parents. under cover of their superiors, is, to me, hipocracy, of a very high order.
I feel sorry, for the victims, the "true believers" and, for those who have maintained their vows. I can only guess, at the pain they must feel.
It's as if we have a species-wide flaw. to mouth platitudes, yet act totally counter to those espoused beliefs, over, and over again...

I, for one, am really angry with The Church. How am I supposed to tell my sons (and daughters, too, I guess)to avoid being alone with a priest and never go to a private confessional, and at the same time tell them that the priest is a spiritual guide who can explain the ways of The Church and of God? This scandal is a loss of innocence for all The Church's children. The only way I've found so far is to tell them to study Catholicism as well many different faiths and create their own understanding of God. I hope this will lead The Church to truly reconnect with its parishioners. I hope they can find a way.

Icj, see this is really why I usually ignore this kind of thread. It's not that I am a closed minded fanatic. It's just that I don't have the time on the computer. Case in point; I bet the sirens going off right now will wake the baby and I'll have to go.
Yes, I am sincere what I said about you. I do keep all the blunderites in my thoughts.

As far as what a lot of you are saying, I guess I'd agree if I thought of religion as a sort of club. Personally, I love the rituals and all that but I'd still be a Catholic if I were alone in a cave for the rest of my life.

Maybe the PPD was wearing off but something a priest said to me in the privacy of the confessional recently just lifted a very dark veil from in front of my eyes and I'm seeing a lot of things so much clearer now. I'm very glad to have gone.

alright maybe I take the whole thing back. The sirens didn't wake him but B3 sprinkling holy water on him definately has wakening powers. AAAARGH