<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by P. Pittsburgh Joe:

I don't think that PSB & Capt. Zap are talking about the same Rockpile album.

Albert Lee, BTW, has played guitar on a lotta Dave's albums.

I can never say enough about Rockpile & esp. Edmunds. Listen to Edmunds once & you almost wanna throw the rest of your rock-n-roll records away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't pin pointing a single album. Just making the same point as you (without going into detail) that the boys in the band Rockpile were together on other albums, ergo pretty much like listening to a Rockpile album. Lowe played bass on a few other Edmunds albums as well. "Subtle As A Flying Mallet" (RCA, 1976) and "Get It" (Swan Song, 1977) along with Terry Williams on a few cuts. And Albert Lee! Yeow! Keep flammable items far away from that cat! If his guitar playing were vocals he'd never stop to take a breath! I agree! D.E. & the boys are rockin' fry-o-laters! They just don't make 'em like that anymore!

And, PS, even some non-commercial, college radio DJ's can be a little snooty. I've taken a substantial liking to Bob Wills & His Texas Playboys over the years and got laughed at by a self-proclaimed "American Roots Music" DJ for calling up and requesting to hear some of the King of Western Swing! American Roots Music! How can you leave Bob & the boys out of that catagory? Heck, he invented Western Swing!

<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>
Capt. Zap

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Ah Zappa was popular when I was high school. Just before you were born. One of his tunes that was popular then was one called Bobby Brown about this gay dude. I haven't heard it in yrs but I remember it was funny. I graduated when you were a baby or a yr old lol...

Arthur Lee did do Little Red Book, it was on Forever Changes. Great album.

As for Famous blue rain coat, my mum has it but I don't really like it, it sound a little to middle of the road? just not me.

And It's Alan my Husband who is the big Zappa man (4caugh splutter year old) He has littaraly EVERYTHING. I Have every offical Bob Dylan album and some.

I thought I had the world's only copy of Subtle as a Flying Mallet!

I have all of Dave Edmunds' albums, cept for Closer to the Flame. That one came out in '90, during the period I call the time when we were busy having kids. By the time I became aware of that release, I couldn't find it anywhere. In fact, most of these Dave albums we're discussing are out of print. One can still get Rockpile's Seconds of Pleasure & Columbia has just released a nice 16-song "best of" compilation. Probably folks can still find 2002's Hand Picked Musical Fantasies, initially available only at Dave's gigs or from his now-defunct web site.

I have seen Dave Edmunds perform live twice. The 1st time was about 1996 at a club called Graffiti, which had a leak in the ceiling that was named for Arlo. I arrived about 90 mintues early to grab a table right in front-center. Dave had a rockin' band with him that night. At one point, the bass & drums took a break & Dave & the other guitarist did "Here Comes the Weekend" & it sounded just like the album version. I'd had the album for nearly 20 years & had never realized there was no bass or drums on that song! Some guys play guitar so well that you don't miss the bass & drums. Dave plays so well that you hear bass & drums that aren't there!

I saw Dave again in 2002. I thought it strange that Dave was giving a solo acoustic performance, as that didn't seem to fit his usual style of music. Let's face it, I was wrong again. Dave mentioned he was doing a solo tour so he could try out some Merle Travis-style guitar pickin' on his audience. Needless to say, he mastered that style like Merle Travis or Chet Atkins. This was a fabulous show as well.

In an unrelated matter, I see that Paul McCartney is performing at halftime of the Super Bowl. I grew up with parents who thought the Beatles were some Communist plot to corrupt their children. Now an ex-Beatle is considered a "safe" alternative to the MTV generation after the Janet Jackson fiasco of last year.

AHHHHH...... Zappa........... early '73 on a visit back to Oregon...... the Paramount theatre, Portland............ I was half stoned from all that funny smoke in the air!!!!! (same at a Neil Young concert soon after ...oh!. and B.B.King. (never partook of the demon weed myself, don't like suckin' smoke into in my lungs on purpose......but the smell!!!!! mmmmmmmmm.

Beverley, i realize now I shouldn't recommend when it comes to music but describe as i don't want to recommend to somebody something they may not like, I believe music is something that everyone should be able to enjoy without other people imposing opinions and its ok to like or dislike this or that! Housekeeping out of the way!

I can understand why you would say Middle of the road on Famous Blue Raincoat but of course I would say, Leonard Cohen. I mean musically, he doesn't really push the edge. Not that I don't like him, its just well, I always thought music was a framework for him to recite sophisticated poetry (and honestly kind of depressing poetry) in! Even that wedding song, that Suzanne thing, its like a poem with music playing in the background and Suzanne and Lenny are going to go home and be generally depressed for the rest of their lives. Again, I don't mean it bad its just the whole Leonard Cohen thing. I like Famous Blue Raincoat because Jennifer Warnes has a wonderful voice (I liked her and kdlang backing up that Orbison guy with Springsteen and Elvis Costello and James Burton and Tom Waits, an evening in Balck and White I believe it was called) and I particularly liked that Joan of Arc religious martyr where her body was burning and mixing with the spirit of the lord (isn't Cohen Jewish), I thought it was a good arrangement and well done. And the Berlin song was good as well. but, like I said I can understand where you are coming from!

I mean , if you want to get depressing and push the edge, go with Tom Waits (who, by the way, turns in the funniest farfisa organ solo in the history of video captured performances on that Roy Orbison thing, he seemed like a homeless person wondering around on stage playing this or that instrument at random, very bizarre)

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IN a politically correct world I guess it’s not appropriate to say, “hey that’s a jewish feller with the Cohen name.” It’s a shame that hupersonity (I am trying to be sensitive girls) has come to this state. I just thought it was funny that an unabashed atheist would find the description of ritual murder practiced between opposing sects of nationalists Christians with the emphasis of blending the soul with the fire to form the holy ghost as described by a jewboy (Kinky Friedman taught me to say Jewboy) descended from the Hebrew priesthood (Cohen, right!)interesting. I don’t know what is right because we didn’t have too many of them Jewboys (Kinky Friedman not me!) in Oklahoma where I come from. I new one fellow named Ozzie, he went to Calvin Coolidge grade school with me there in Southside OKC. I remember he went out in the hall while we did “Christian” activities in the classroom (we had prayer stuff I guess, I can’t remember what we did but I remember sending him into the hall when we did it and I bet he does to.) They never did anything with the American Indian boys in the class (there was more of them than Jewboys (Kinky Friedman, not me). I guess it’s OK to not be politically correct with them fellows! Like I said I don’t know much about that stuff but I do know Western Swing Music (why hell I’m from Oklahoma). So this is for Captain Zap, since he brought it up (that’ll teach ya’)

I could talk about Western Swing ‘til the cows come home why hell I lived in the Cherokee Strip (where some day I’ll take a trip back to). There is a recording released in ’82 by Columbia Special Products called OKEH Western Swing. This has some excellent examples of early Western Swing with great liner notes discussing the convergence of varied musical styles onto the plains of Texas and Oklahoma around 1900 or so. It discusses the culture that gave rise to these sounds including talk about the Crystal Springs Ballroom in the Dallas area where Bonnie and Clyde liked to party (I bet they were a hoot). The biggest problem is absolutely no annotation about who does what. About half is early Bob Wills bands with lots of Dixieland horns and seminal electric guitar attempts (Charlie Christian deserves a lot of credit for what he did but the advent of hot electric guitar was going on by both black and white artists before John Hammond came out to OKC and collected Mr Christian). Of interest are the double entendre's (these guys played vaudeville type sets no doubt) and political incorrectness (one song entitled “when I put on my long white robe.”) but history and times are what they are!!!

Another recording of interest comes from the second era of Western Swing, and it’s the prototype of the Cowboy band that a fellow named Hank would turn himself into a Pop Country God with and Nashville into a Temple of White Trash Culture (I am from White Trash so I can say things like that). The recording is a compilation of Jack Guthrie songs recorded between 1944 and 15 January 1948 when he succumbed to consumption. My interest in this relates to another Arlo story in my life (these are true stories) involving that 8 track tape of Runnin’ Down the Road and my mother hauling me around when I was in 7th grade. That was the only tape I could play around my mother because she new most of the songs, particularly Oklahoma Hills. The amazing part (I never saw my mother buy a recording in my life) is she knew all the words and when I began getting other versions of the song she new other songs on those recordings as well(most notably the Hank Thompson and Jimmy Wakely versions who were both big in OKC), She even knew other songs off the Jack Guthrie compilation which she couldn't have heard since she was in highschool. I have a Bear Family set of Guthrie songs and its high quality with excellent notes (and as is any Bear set, expensive). Why do foreigners own the rights to America’s musical treasures (I guess they paid top dollar for them.). The notes have a strangely anti Woody tone making a big deal out of copyrights (pictures of sheet music before and after Woody’s name appeared). The bent seems more politically motivated by the notes author than anything. The recordings are excellent and the band is ever bit as good as that Hank fellow (including a great Boogie called Oakie Boogie that you can substitute the Move it on Over lyrics without missing a beat).

By the way, the most bizarre Oklahoma Hills recording I ever heard goes to Charlie Feathers!!!!

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PSB, if you want to get Depressingly beautiful then try to get hold of someone called Nick Drake. I know that you can get him over there as I saw his only three albums on sale while I was over your side.
they are, in order:-

Five Leaves Left (69?)
Bryter Later (71?)
Pink Moon (73?)

There were originly on Island. Now you can get a box set with all three in and a bonus CD with songs they found on his home recording tapes after he died this is called
Fruit Tree, the bonus disc called Time Of No Reply, and a little booklet biography.
It is expencive I paid £52.99 for it in 2002, but it was worth it.

He was an English 'Cambrige' lad who suffered from Depression some say he committed suicide (74) with his anti depresants but some say it was an accidentle over dose; his family and close friends say that he was showing signs of recovery before his death, so I tend to belive it was a sad accident.

Most people say his work is like poetry to music, and I do agree, and again most people say his work is a mix of Dylan and Leonard Cohen, and I do agree. It has a dylan twist to it and a meloncoly air of Cohen. but his guitar playing is so soft and beautiful, truly is.


I know what you meen about not telling people what to buy, but if you are ever in a store and see them ask can you listen through them , and I think you'll be tempted to get them for when you feel like a relaxing quiet night in.

I have some Nick Drake around here somewhere, while living in student poverty in the 80's I had a neighbor who listened to Nick Drake constantly. He was a philosphy graduate student/teacher ay OU. He had great tee shirts (all kinda stupid philosophy stuff). He new I liked music (he would put on Nick Drake and I would counter with Hazel Adkins, oo ee ah ah ah). We had a generally good time but the women folk thought we were crazy. They were probably right.

Speaking of old folkies with a somewhat poetic depressed view of life, didn't somebody mention Tim Buckley. I liked some of his songs. I remember Hallucination and the River and Chase the Blues Away. Those were pretty good poetry type things. I remember a band called Camper Van Chadbourne (A mixture of Camper van Beethoven and Eugene Chadbourne) had an LP with all Tim Buckley songs. THat was way out there progressive alternative psychotic psychedelic versions of that material. I saw Dr. Eugene Chadbourne in a basement deli decored like a John Waters set (Divine could been sitting at the table with the art deco toaster and coffee cups and it would have looked natural)in beautiful down town Athens Georgia (a great place I spent a couple of years in for no apparent reason). He did a bunch of Thelonius Monster and Zappa and Chadbourne stuff and passed around an electric rack (crazy feedback gizmo man he scraped it on my head and the vibes blue an amp). All 20 people (truly a full house, I mean we were squeezed in the little basement)had a great time.

And yes, there is an Arlo story. I saw Arlo twice in Athens. The first time he played in a renovated movie theatre in downtown. I went down to the Globe (A bar with all kinda exotic beers on tap, it was the first place I ever had Juengling in fact, my current staple). Well before I went in the bar I had to stop at the drug store for something. Well sure enough I hold the door open and out pops Arlo with that humongous growth of hair of his (that was the first time I seen that in its full glory). He was carrying tooth paste and headed back for the bus parked there. I said, "Hey Arlo, how ya doin'" and he said it right back at me. That is about all there is to that story!! It happened in about circa'90 or so! He's a friendly fellow but he made quite the vision boppin' down mainstreet that day!

I wanted to respond to Captain Zap’s mention of music into the 80’s and radio stations. It reminds me of a Ry Cooder interview from sometime in the past where the interviewer asked why he was recording fewer records (CD;s, Recorded units) and moving into soundtracks. Ry said something like, I realize I can’t get the recording industry to keep funding my exploration of music on my terms, there is just not a market for the areas where I want to go. However, I have found that soundtracks allow me creativity to incorporate what I find in my journey. That is the deal in a nut shell; music is a business and a big business. Those exec’s want to make as unified a product as possible and they want their warehouses to fill and empty on a predictable schedule. It leaves consumers like myself who prefer their music from the fringes dependent on things like endowments for the arts (if you like jazz or classical music as I do) or creative independent marketing (I think Arlo calls it Rising Son Records). That is what I mean about 1974 and Walkin’ Down the Line, when those big investment groups (our economic future and you better bone up on it with the new social security) began pulling those FM stations in line (there was a short burst of independence that ended then, at least in OKC). As far as the NPR phenomenon, well that is something I supported since about 1980. That is when KGOU in Norman converted. That brings up the compassionate DJ comment which leads me to a song, The Porter Makes the Train (Jerry Jeff used to sing that a lot, about the porter that allowed the guitars to come out in the bar car makes the train). When KGOU went NPR they hired a music nazi to manage the transition. For about a year it was strictly a classical format (and not a particularly well thought classical format). Well that didn’t last long and students went back to doing the evening morning and weekend shows.

The other thing is the possible Merle Haggard / Bob Dylan tour mentioned elsewhere. I personally think it is a wonderful idea. It is like the yin / yang of the Woody Guthrie legacy. I loved Merle Haggard music prior to Okie from Muskogee because he is, unquestioningly, the continuation of Woody’s Okie Legacy. His original band and he are the kids of the refugees (Roy Nichols is the grandfather of chicken pickin a Telecastor, no doubt, I loved his Maddox Brothers and Rose stuff per-Merle). There was a period when I had an Anti Merle stance given those years and the set of songs he put out around that period (69 to 74). There is no Arlo story here but there is a Woody legacy story. That dust bowl migration thing did not end suddenly with the advent of the post WWII era. Now my family never hit the road outta Oklahoma but plenty did. And by 1970, the kids of those refugees where getting divorces and having alcohol problems and there kids where wondering around Bakersfield smoking too much dope and ingesting little purple pills for the colors you see. Well invariably they sent the kids back to family in Oklahoma where we didn’t smoke marijuana according to Merle. Some of my best friends in high school had followed this reverse dust bowl migration. I don’t know why I brought this up, but I have reconciled my disagreements with Merle and love to attend his show (I mentioned somewhere around here about seeing him with Merle Travis’ son and Merle T dealing with the Un-American Activities Committee. Merle H was standing there during that discussion).

If you haven’t, you should listen to some Haggard songs because you will find they are full of stuff like Pride (even though I am poor white trash), escapism (that Ronald Reagen taking the Big City song with the so called social security line as an anthem is nothing but a call to going back to a utopian place where the climate suits my clothes), escapism (lost my woman, I work for a straw boss and got nothing left but drink), And dreams of a simpler world with that nostalgic bent (Muskogee without pot instead of the little cabin home on the hill).

Historical note: Muskogee was the base of a Western Swing Band called Smoky and the Woodchips (I believe, something like that). The nickname Smoky was based on the leader love of the demon weed (that’s right, he was an unabashed reefer head right there in Muskogee in the 1930’s!) I will shut up for awhile now!!!

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Talking about "Okie from Muskogee" - back in the summer of 1970 (I think thats the year) Arlo sang "Okie from Muskogee" on The Smothers Brothers Show ABC - Tom and Dick had performed it on the opening show - Arlo was on about the third show - Dick and Tommy had been canceled or kicked off of NBC and CBS - Tom came out and stopped Arlo told him that Dick and he had sang the song and everyone knows that they don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee and that they really needed this summer show - Arlo said something like "they might not smoke it in Muskogee but it grows this tall" holding his hand high in the air " Tom stared at Arlo's hand in awe then said "I don't want to talk about it Arlo" and left.

Don't ever shut up P.S.! It's great to hear all these stories from you guys, bein' as how I was kinda cut off to a certain extent when my family moved to OZ in '64 when I was 10. Luckily my big sis went back to Oregon in 67 to College for a year, hitchhiked to San Fran,with a black guy,and brought heaps of albums back so I was then ahead of the other 13 year olds here!!!!

Now, I remember you guys discussing something about The Gaslight, (where the heck i can't remember) and if it had a bar.
So..., Folk-Rock: The Bob Dylan Story, by Sy and Barbera Ribakove, Dell, 1966, page 31.........."He was working more frequently now. He played The Gaslight Cafe, a dimly lit basement club on Mac Dougal Street, where Bill Cosby and Peter, Paul and Mary got there start, and where the reasonable prices and friendly atmosphere brought both an uptown and downtown crowd to the bare wooden tables set on several ramp connected levels. He played Cafe Wha?, a larger basement room on MacDougal which attracted tourists DESPITE THE FACT THAT NO LIQUOR WAS SERVED" (my capitals)

Then it goes on to mention Gerde's Folk City and how it had a partitioned-off bar. So I think we can surmise from this that The Gaslight must indeed have served liquor.

I used to watch The Smothers Brothers Show but had no idea Arlo was on there. I sued to get my Grandma to watch it with me.I bet Arlo had tea with Goldie the hippie tea lady lol...

THe best 60's era music show in my opinion was the Glen Campbell show. It is really amazing the diversity of musicians he got on that show. I remember that first year when he always did a segment with John Hartford, i looked forward to that every week (I have always liked John Hartford for some reason). Of course John Cash had a few show with the Dylan character particularly. It was the Campbell show that was most musically consistent I thought. Of course, the Smothers Brothers, i never missed, wasn't it Fixin' to Die Rag they played that was the last straw with that George Segal fellow, It was probably Goldie Hahn that caought my attention because she played hell with my raging hormones at the time. It's not easy being a guy sometimes!!!

Historical note: what Arlo said was true. This material was legendary and called Tulsa Top's. It is musically relevant since the Tulsa Rythm Section that became the foundation of a band called Derek and the Dominoes referred to themselves as the Tulsa Top's. They also toured with Clapton and Freddie King, an awesome concert in OKC I was lucky enough to be on the second row for!! Just for historical accuracy, you see.

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The Glen Campbell show was a good one. I used to watch it with my Grandma who loved him. She used to say that Glen Cambell was such a fine young boy...