Just a spot for personal questions or general topics to pose to the group.

How do you guys handle a parent with destructive habits? Say smoking, or refusing to eat properly, whatever. A parent that you have a great relationship with.

How much pressure should a child put on a parent to stop such behaviour? You want the person to live a long life, but you don't want to lose the special relationship. You don't want them to dread your every visit because they know you might "nag" them.

They say they want to enjoy the few years they have left, that everyone has a vice, and that they don't want to be nagged.

Do you respect that and enjoy the time you have? Do you nag like hell? Something else?
If you confronted and made a case, did it lessen the quality of your relationship?

Just my opinion. I would give them the respect of assuming they understood the results of their actions, and just treasure the time available.

Edited, in all fairness, to say that I'm a 50-something who smokes and doesn't always eat what I should. But also that I was the child of people who thoroughly enjoyed their retirement, and then it turned out that if they had denied themselves everything they enjoyed, their lives would have ended when and how they did, anyway. I'll always be glad that they did what they wanted to.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Ceashel on Mar 24, 2005 ---</FONT></center>

I'm with Shelley all the way (as usual), after my years working in aged care. Let em do what they want.
One of the reasons I give to people that my folks will never go into a home, if I can help it, is because of stuff like that.(The Doctor said....Blah Blah Blah) One other reason that kinda sums it up is how my folks have been enjoying their cup of fresh brewed coffee every morning I can remember since I was born. (the smell brings back memories of a happy childhood) And I could not bear them ending their days drinking Caterers Blend (of what ever brand) Instant Coffee with their breakfast and eating re-generated food. Hell if they're old they deserve to do what they want!

I agree with Shelley and Louise also. But I am dealing with a similar situation right now. My father, age 77, end-stage (we think) emphysema... on a machine that converts room air to oxygen... the airline tubing's prongs in his nose as he's leaning over trying to breathe, with a cigarette in his hand.

And to think... the last time I saw him out of bed was back in September, and he was nagging ME to quit smoking! And I had my heart attack just a few days later.

There'd be no advantage to nagging him to quit smoking, to eat right (or to eat at all), we can't even convince him to get out of bed. Now he can't even get to the VA for his next 6 months worth of meds. And they won't make housecalls!

I want to look into hospice and here's my dilemma. I want to nag him about it. I know (I hope) they can offer more palliative care, less pain, fewer panic attacks. But he won't let us even broach the subject with him.

My sister and dad's live-in girlfriend (slave) all agree... and Marian needs a break... she can't even go to the post office without having to sit with him for half an hour dealing with his panic that she's leaving the house. And the post office is just around the corner!

So, I can see where you're coming from too. It's frustrating.

You guys all make sense and I thank you for sharing your experience. But I can't help this guilty feeling that I should be doing more, doing something, anything. That when he's gone, I'm going to be vicious with myself with regret about not intervening. Saying, had I done something, he might have had 5 more good years. He's had cancer once a decade ago, but is still in decent shape. Mom nags a little but not much, as far as I know.

What about giving him a letter and spilling my guts about how I feel, with the stipulation that I never verbally nag. Is that a good compromise? Or is that just going to make him feel guilty and worse about himself without solving the problem anyway?

lc, i don't agree with the others, with regard to any behavior of a loved one that directly, and clearly impacts their health and chances for a longer, better quality of life. To me, that means getting someone to quit smoking, because I do not accept that it's just a vice. It has direct impact on their quality of life, as well as everyone around them. My dad was a 4 pack a day smoker, and when my wife was pregnant with our first son, i told him directly that i love him, but he would not be welcome to see his grandson unless he changed his smoking habit. He quit cold turkey the next day, and clearly had more years than he would have, had he continued down the path of pneumonia and lung disease.
It's tough love.
My mom also had to be nagged to go have those "nasty sores" on her face looked at. She resisted and resisted, and yes'd us to death... and we just turned the pressure down to give her the space/time she needed.. making it an exit reminder, like "love you mom, and make that appointment!" She finally did it on her 'own' and we could tell she was glad she did...
3 operations later, her face is healing and the cancerous growths are gone. Sometimes the parent needs someone to be the nag.
If your relationship is truly special, you don't do your loved one any good being quiet, especially if the situation is still reversible. Of course, if he/she is on their deathbed, I'm not suggesting to yank the cigarette outta their hands, but for crying out loud, the person with emphysema smoking with the oxygen flowing... who let it get that far??
Bottom line, if you don't take a stand, and possibly be a 'nag', then your feelings and concerns, and good intentions will not be known.

And to all my blunder friends - you're gonna do what you're gonna do, but if you can stop smoking sooner (or later), you're gonna do it longer! Just my 2 cents. I do love ya' all!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arnie:

lc, i don't agree with the others, with regard to any behavior of a loved one that directly, and clearly impacts their health and chances for a longer, better quality of life...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, here I have to agree with Arnie, too. Nothing like suddenly finding yourself "on the fence" on an issue. But each of us were raised differently, and certain things may be acceptible in one family and not in another.

To lc: the letter/email sounds like a good idea, however... I did that last year with my father and he emailed me back that my letter was "patronizing."

I think just letting him know how much you care is enough. He's an adult and knows the options.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arnie:
Of course, if he/she is on their deathbed, I'm not suggesting to yank the cigarette outta their hands, but for crying out loud, the person with emphysema smoking with the oxygen flowing... who let it get that far??
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty stupid, isn't it? Then again, why make him even more miserable by forcing him at this late date to quit? I asked him how in the world he can smoke when he can't even breathe! He said, "c'mon on, you know how relzaxing it is... it makes me feel better."

So, how could I argue with him? It's just about all he has left! Will quitting buy him any more time? Probably not, but it may make his last weeks or months more miserable. And it's not up to us, he's an adult and why start another family feud?

This is a tough thing to tackle. But I think it would depend on the circumstances. I used to smoke but stopped decades ago (Although I sometimes smoke a pipe in the spring & summer because of the mosquitoes. But, like Bill Clinton, I don't inhale!). If it's a habit that's going to shorten a person's lifespan by minutes, hours, or even a few days (as in the case of a very elderly or infirm person) but gives them some sense of pleasure or satisfaction, I would personally let it go. Maybe a letter would be the right way. It avoids confrontation and argument that will sometimes make the person even more stubborn against giving up their vice, habit or addiction. But, when it all comes down, it is their decision and not your fault or failure that they continue to do what they want to do.

<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>
Captain Zap

From a slightly different perspective ... that of the "nag-ee" ... IT DOESN'T WORK. At least not on me. I know that my mother loves me and her nagging and bitching (yes, bitching) about smoking and people who smoke just drove me nuts and certainly did not encourage me to quit.

That being said, when we built our new house a few years ago, I decided (solely my decision) to not smoke in the house ... well, I did, but only in my bathroom with the fan on full blast.

However, when I had severe bronchitis with asthma last month, I absolutely could not smoke. So ... days went by. I decided to just quit, since I had already gone through the hardest part of nicotine addiction and was too sick to worry about it. The hardest thing to do was destroy that last pack of cigarettes in my purse--but I did it.

The point is, it was my decision and mine alone. The bad part is I still totally miss it especially when driving. Actually, I buy a pack of those nicotine-free cigs and smoke them when I drive ... so now to wean off that. It's a habit thing.

The point is NO AMOUNT OF NAGGING FROM ANYONE WOULD HAVE WORKED!

So to all you smokers ... smoke. To all you nonsmokers ... don't. And if I ever get on that preachy bandwagon so many former smokers get on, for godde's sake KNOCK ME OFF!

I don't think I'd bug my parents about diet. I don't believe in all these diets out there (they're all made up by somebody who's trying to sell me something) nor do I believe that all of the "bad" foods are really that bad. My grandfather lived to be 94 & my dad was always yelling at him about eating cheese. I used to think, heck, the guy's made it this far, let him enjoy his cheese...

As for smoking, I gave up on nagging my dad about that many years ago. Why waste my time & aggravate myself by nagging him about doing something he'd never do? I can have the same feeling of accomplishment by standing in my backyard & telling the grass to stop growing.

Besides, I'm tired of getting stupid answers:

"Everybody has to die of something." (...as if people who die of lung cancer or respiratory diseases don't suffer a lot first.)

"I get enjoyment from it."
(Yep, all that hacking & coughing sounds like fun to me.)

"I'll quit as soon as [<u>insert event here</u>.]"
(If you wanted to quit, you wouldn't put it off. If you don't have the courage to quit now, you won't have it later, either. Every smoker is "quitting." Guess what? They're all full of bullshit.)

SO, I'd had enough. He had to quit a couple of years ago when something made him quit, so it's a moot point now. But at the time, I felt no guilt that I shoulda done more, coz it was pointless.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by P. Pittsburgh Joe on Mar 25, 2005 ---</FONT></center>

Pam, congratulations for quitting. Nagging never worked for me either. I did quit (several times, actually) in the past, and I knew that "when I was ready," I could easily. But, I was never quite "ready."

That heart attack was the best thing that's happened to me in a long time. Not only did I quit (and went through the withdrawal stuff in the ICU where there was NO chance I could cheat)... but Lance also quit... and another benefit is that Lance and I are now working on fixing our marriage...

All the talking to me or nagging about it never worked.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by P. Pittsburgh Joe:
Besides, I'm tired of getting stupid answers:

"Everybody has to die of something."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I had to laugh when I read this statement. It just sounded so familiar. And true, too!

My mother had finally quit smoking on the Great American Smoke-Out day in November. On February 5th, my parents' anniversary, they went out for dinner. Instead of having a cigarette after eating, they left the restaurant, crossed the street, got hit by a car. She was 57.

Terrie don't you have Day Respite Care or In Home Care there so you can all get a break?
Or is it too expensive??
Arnie, I understand what your saying and I think it depends on the age and health of the parents we are talking about. My parents, in there 80's, both have a form of cancer, but old age will probably get them before the cancer does, and I'm happy for them to do whatever makes them happy at this stage, (they've had happy healthy lives).
And also my perspective comes from my years in aged care where some people had nothing else in there life to enjoy because of Dementia or they were just too plain old.
Hope this helps.Boy I wish I could spend time with you guys and help more.I had 6 years of talking to family members about this kinda stuff.

Icj,

You need to do what you think is right, but don't let it stand in way of a relationship with a loved one. They will die some day, no matter what it's from.

You have all made great points and I thank you for your time to respond. I still don't know what the hell to do. But I'm thinking.

Pat, you possess a mighty cross of wisdom and common sense. Can you offer any advice on this?