Why should we know that these were "black men"?

If they weren't Negro African-American(I'm assuming that's what you mean by "black men"), and were Caucasian European-American, would it have been written that they were "young white men"?

Would it suffice to say that they were "young men" or just "a couple of guys"?

What is the reason and intention of using particular words? Is it to define differences?

If so, why would we need to do that?

Easy on Cheryl, Gerry. From what I know about her through her postings, she is definitely not a racist, and was just recounting her experiences for us. You're "beyond left field" on this one.

Speaking of songs, I heard they took a 'Tragically Hip' song off the radio, as it's lyrics were too much of a reminder of the levis. (sp.ck)

In watching this thing unfold, the news seems to be getting better at least. It's definately not the case, of too little too late. I take it rather, that America is better late than never. After so much bad ( sad ) news it's a tad bit comforting, to see the shelters ( that so many people got stuck in ) are upgraded.(e.p. lots of clean water and food, clothes, Professional councilers, medical care) It's also fortunate that people aren't being delayed, and they are able to get benefits from debit cards without too much hassle. (for the people on relief).

It's also very uplifting to see some familys reunite. Mothers, daughters, fathers, sons. They are the fortunate, and that feeling is contagious ( even tho I'm way up here in the north ).

I was sorta impressed with the mayor of New Orleans, as I liked his message to the President. BUT, from what I hear on the news, he's all for TOTAL evacuation. If people don't want to leave they're homes, they shouldn't be forced to! I'm glad to see that the military wants nothing to do with this effort. The sad fact is, fireman, DEC officers, and Cops of all agencys, can. And if they do, it will be chaos. Every situation, should be assessed. OR simply if someone does not want to leave, they should have the opt to stay. Food and medicine is being delivered.... ( lets hope I can somewhat trust the news)

Every day things are getting better ( Buddy Holly )

Oop's didn't mean to offend anyone on here. I am defiantely not a racist. In fact I recently took Mike & myself to see the black gospel group The Sensational Nightingales do a concert at a black church up the road from us in the subdivision next to us. We were the only white folks there & had a great time.

I was watching the news and geese a person that was in need of help called himself a refugee. Just as simple as can be - He just said it in a sentance with no deep thought or reading into any of the word. Just simply said the word "refugee". He just said it. Just like that and went on about his business. I mean I think we should just stop the analysis of every freakin way people describe things and help these people.

Speaking of Songs:

"The Last Resort"
Eagles - Hotel CA

I like the term "Katrina Survivor (s)" or "Hurricane Survivor (s)".
Personally, "refugee" doesn't imply anything negative.

Mikey, I agree with you almost completely, except the "You're 'beyond left field' on this one". LOL Maybe you should've said "Way beyond right-field and in the river". I was only asking honest, matter-a-factly questions about some things that I've been thinking about for some time, for which I don't have the answers. But I will say that I don't think I'm seeing the whole global picture here. Although I quoted Cheryl, the questions, which I tried to edit once but couldn't, were not necessarily only for her, but all. One of the inappropriate things that I did do was perpetuate an off-topic discussion. Should've found another forum perhaps. Sorry 'bout that. I'm looking forward to hearing Arlo's new tune that he's working on that was mentioned earlier.

speaking of songs...

"passing trains that have no names
freight yards full of old black men
and the graveyards of the rusted automobile..."

i don't know, that song just popped into my head for no reason at all...

...the lyric evokes a bit of color now don't you think?

"oh no she didn't!"

"oh yes she did!"

"oh no she didn't!"

"oh yes she did!".....

sometimes i wonder if the word racism has lost it's usefulness...maybe we should switch it out for the word jackassism...but it would probably only continue down the road to more abuse of the institution of webster's dictionary. (or whoever's!!)

I don't think I'd care about being called a refugee. It sounds like an accurate description of the situation. I thought it was odd that people were making a thing about that.

I can understand the charges of racism, true or not. It might be more classism, but it's hard to separate the two sometimes. It's hard to imagine a situation where those left behind were mostly affluent white people and not even getting food or water to them. I don't know, though. This only happened to the people it happened to, and a lot of them are black. The poor, the elderly and the disabled were the people who couldn't get out on the whole. There's no question that people of all backgrounds have been tragically affected by this, but there are these certain groups who couldn't escape. And the fact that as many as 100,000 would be unable to get out on their own was one of the many things that a known fact before the catastrophe happened. And there didn't seem to be any plan for them at all.

There are things that make you wonder, though. There was, for instance, Barabara Bush's remark about how this is "working out very well" for the people who are now at the Astrodome because they were "underprivileged". Considering those people have lost everything, she doesn't seem aware that most of them, even if poor, had jobs, and that many have lost families and there are children there who have become separated from their parents. That's pretty callous. It's probably more classist than racist, but I think there's some of both in that statement.

oh pat...thank you for expanding on that.....

...as usual, Pat, a thoughtful response to so much......
....beyond the words used ("underprivileged" raised a coupla hairs on my neck for a moment and then i shrugged).......part of what touched me so deeply was seeing how many people in our society have become throwaway people.... reading back on Judy's post....alot of people were expected to die....but where was the expectation for those who would survive?...and i'm not sure if it's about race or class...most likely an undefinable combination....
.....remember the war on poverty??....even democrats rarely mention the lower economic groups.....and with good reason....the throwaway mentality is creeping up the economic ladder.....the middle class needs to work to protect itself.....
.....it's not a big surprise to those of us in the lower economic groups (and I am one).....but to see it so graphically all it once....well.....
....the light i see is between and among our citizens...not everyone.....but enough.....who help out themselves and others.....yell about it....and get our "leaders" to back down....and that, thank God, is still working.....

I've been reading these posts for several days now and would like to respond to several things.

First, the woed refugee. It means a person seeking refuge from something. It is what it i s. I don't see a negative conotation there.

Second, I can't believe that Barbara Bush made such a stupid statement. Even the "underprivildged" have feelings andd feel loss as greatly as the rest of us who may not be "underpriviledged" (sorry about the spelling) There was a clip of a little boy trying to get on a bus with his dog and the dog was taken away from him and let loose. That broke my heart. That dog might have been all the kid had left and then he lost that too.

Third, while I don't believe that people should be forced from their homes, I also do not believe that it is the job of the city to continually make trips to supply people with groceries, water, and medical supplies. They have a much larger task at hand and need to concentrate on making the city safe for the return of it's residents. The EMS workers are not a taxi service and the city is too unstable for people to live there right now. There is the possibility of fires, diesease and there won't be power for a long time. There won't be jobs either.

As far as blame goes, there is more than enough to go around. My husband used to be in charge of emergency management for the town we lived in before he retired. There were plenty of buses that could have been used to evacuate people two days before the storm hit. Those people should never have been put in the superdome with no supplies. There is supposed to be an information officer giving reports every couple of hours to the people in the shelters. There should have been guards of some sort keeping people in there safe. Water could have been taken from the local supermarkets and stockpiled at the superdome. Same with food. The emergency vehicles, fire engines, ambulance, etc. should have been move elsewhere for safe keeping. Instead, they are all ruined. There was plenty of notice to evacuate New Orleans ahead of time and the city waited until the last minute. The state and federal govt. are so tied up in red tape that it takes forever for anything to get started. Not to mention the man power, equipment, and money are mostly in Iraq but I won't even start on that. The budget for the Army Corp. of Engineers has had their budget cut for the past several years. They knew the levee wasn't safe for the category storm they were predicting. It Katrina hadn't veered to the eat everyone in the superdome would have been killed. Poor planning all around.

Sorry abaout the long post.

Oops. I should have proofed the previous post before I posted it. I'm sorry about the spelling and typing errors. My daughter has a bad habit of eating while typing and some of my keys stick.

I really wish the classification of people whose lives were detroyed by the rebellion of nature would stop I thought were all human beings regardless of where we live, race religion. If politcal correctness is what is trying to be achieved here hey let's just call them people.